Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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StirCrazy wrote:Huntindog wrote:StirCrazy wrote:Huntindog wrote:
The fact is that the govt. LT tire testing standards are much more demanding than for ST tires. That being a FACT, it is not hard to understand why STs fail so often.
On another note: LT tire choices in the 16" rim size are many. In fact most if not all manufacturers offer Good, Better, Best models to choose from. Such selection just isn't availible in ST tires. There is a choice of ONE from each manufacturer...So if one wishes to buy a premium ST tire,,,There are none availible....But as an observation of the testing standards, the cheapest LT tire is tested to higher standards than any ST tire.
didn't we have a thread a while ago where we found that the testing standard for both tires is virtually the same, but the LT does one test to a higher speed (partially loaded I believe it was at 60PSI) where the ST does a higher max load test? doesn't sound like it is much more demanding, or a fact.
This is the part you missed:But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.
The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.
The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.
Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.
but what you are missing is if a ST tire is rated for a higher speed, then it had to be tested at that speed. I know some of the tests are more stringent for a LT tire as they carry people, where as a ST tire carries well nothing that can't be replaced so if you drive over the tested design speed that's on you. The ones I just put on my 5th are rated up to 75MPH so they would have to be tested at that to get that rating. do I ever drive that fast, no. I just finished a 1000 mile round trip and locked the speed control in at 60mph.
the biggest reason for blowouts with ST tires is User error, I know we hate to hear that stuff is our own fault or road hazards. 9 out of 10 are people not checking pressure, not inspecting their tires, driving too fast on lower rated tires, buying the cheapest of cheap tires to save a buck, or just plain old road hazards. Potholes, for example, can put a week spot in the tire a year later when you are traveling on a hot day at close to the capacity in speed or weight and all of a sudden it blows. You can't explain it as the damage happened last season and just held till now.
Just like LT tires you don't go out and look for the absolute cheapest one that isn't rated for your truck when loaded or the speed you drive at, but why do we do that with our RV's. Yes, the manufacturer will put the cheapest ones they can get that are legal for the weight and they don't care about speed as the paperwork for the tires says 50mpg and that's on you if you drive it faster. the tires that came on my rv were capable of hauling the weight and close to the speed I drive but not quite. I had one blowout after 6 years of use. my old trailer I never had a blow out till 10 years of use (yes those tires should have been changed but I didn't know much about inspecting them at that point in time.) On my 5th wheel I found a broken bead and changed that one out two years ago, last year I had a blow out, then for this year I changed all 4 out so they were matching, and I found one of the other older ones had tread separation starting. the factory tires had a 2-2-1 belt design and used nylon and polyester as well as steel belts. My new ones are rated to 75mph, use a 2-2-2 construction and are all steel construction. so I got these ones figuring I would kick the major upgrade down the road another 5 or 6 years as to move to the sailun I need new rims also. These ones are rated at 1300 lbs higher than the weight that will be on them so there is buffer on the speed and the capacity.
LT or ST is a personal choice and people will argue about it all day, throwing facts to skew the discussion one way or another to suit them selves. in the end if you have cheap tires and one blows upgrade to a better tire that suits how you drive and the weight you have on them. if you drive 80mph then ya probably no ST tire is rated over 75mph so you need to look at LT tires. if you drive 70 then there are options in both. Are you a part time comedian?
In an attempt to persuade others on STs superiority, you list 4 failures. You also state that LTs are tested to more stringent standards, because they carry people.
This is hilarious
Huntindog
100% boondocking
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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^Meh…
To be fair, you’re kinda the same way….jumping straight into the must have LTs, many times without regard for the actual camper and weight that the person is asking abooot.
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Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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Grit dog wrote:^Meh…
To be fair, you’re kinda the same way….jumping straight into the must have LTs, many times without regard for the actual camper and weight that the person is asking abooot. You should notice I am the one that posted the facts abooot govt. tire test standards. I am serious abooot my dismal record with STs. And my perfect record with LTs.My tire usage is admittadly HARD on tires. As a hardcore boondocker my trips always include Off pavement miles, in Arizona heat...A lot of it not good roads. Probably my fault for expecting those poor ST tires to hang in there with the LT tires on my truck.
I am upfront and honest abooooot modifications that may need to be made to enable such a swap. I am also honest abooot the need to choose a tire with the load rating needed.
One catstrophic failure can easily be more than the cost to switch tires.
Should I be quiet abooot my real life experiences? Or tell them so people can judge for themselves? If that amuses you, then I am OK with that.
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CapriRacer
Somewhere in the US
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As a tire engineer, I find these discussions very interesting. It's hard to sort out the experiences some had recently against someone who remembers the way it used to be long ago.
There was a time where LT tires didn't perform very well - which is why the government tests were changed. What we don't have is reliable information about current tires. This is partially because things have improved to the point where actual failures are fairly rare.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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@Huntindog, heck I agree with you on the LT vs ST thing, IF one is in the 16” rim range.
But what you’re doing is the equivalent of any time someone asks if a mid size suv is good for a popup, saying get a Duramax.
Just like self proclaiming that you’re VERY hard on tires and based on your experiences 20-30 years ago that the same still applies or applies to folks who are not doing extreme boondocking or whatever you called it with 30-40’ long campers.
You’ve done the same in other discussions where your recommendation is wholly impractical or impossible (like any trailer with 5 lug axles).
In this case the OP said they want to upgrade to 16s but then ghosted the thread. Whether they can or not we will never know probably.
But to refuse to believe that a good ST tire with well over 30% headroom in capacity will hold up is not being helpful. It’s just being stodgy.
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Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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If you were paying attention to my posts I have several times written in detail my 15 year journey of first being an advocate of STs, and slowly changing my opinion. And what it took to put LTs on my 2001 Fleetwood Wilderness. It started out life with 5 lug Rims. And 14" 205 LRC tires. I tried several options on it while still using STs. The last ST was with new 15" rims and Goodyear 215 LRE tires. I had my last blowout aboot 50 miles North of Phoenix.
Thats right, those tires made it 50 miles.
It was summertime and hot as hell. DW was waving passing traffic over as I layed on the trucks floor mats to keep from burning myself on the asphalt. After getting back on the road, DW was concerned. With all the money we been had spending on set after set of upgrading ST tires, and still having failures, she asked me what else could we do short of selling the TT. We had three of our Brittanys qualified to compete in the AKC Brittany Gundog National Championships In Iona Michigan, about a 5000 mile round trip coming up. and needed to have reliable tires to make the trip. I told her that a few people here had said that LTs were better. She said "Do it" I told her it would be expensive. We would need another set of 5 new rims in 16",new 6 lug drums/bearings, some suspension work to obtain clearance and 5 new Michelin XPS RIBS.
she said "Do it. I do not want to see you laying under the TT on hot asphalt with traffic whizzing by you again" I got the swap done for around 1500.00 2006 dollars. And never had a tire issue since.
So in my experience, one can put reliable LT tires on most any TT, if one wants to badly enough.
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Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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CapriRacer wrote:As a tire engineer, I find these discussions very interesting. It's hard to sort out the experiences some had recently against someone who remembers the way it used to be long ago.
There was a time where LT tires didn't perform very well - which is why the government tests were changed. What we don't have is reliable information about current tires. This is partially because things have improved to the point where actual failures are fairly rare. I am on a few forums. One thing has not changed over my 30+ years of towing RVs.
Tire problems were, and still are easily the most common topic
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StonedPanther
Goshen IN
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Huntindog wrote:CapriRacer wrote:As a tire engineer, I find these discussions very interesting. It's hard to sort out the experiences some had recently against someone who remembers the way it used to be long ago.
There was a time where LT tires didn't perform very well - which is why the government tests were changed. What we don't have is reliable information about current tires. This is partially because things have improved to the point where actual failures are fairly rare. I am on a few forums. One thing has not changed over my 30+ years of towing RVs.
Tire problems were, and still are easily the most common topic
That's because 95+% of folks on forums know as much about towing and trailer tires as they do when it comes to determining what end is the business end of a screwdriver.
My tire BLEW OUT LOL. That happened sometime after Joe Blowout took a long trip and stopped to pee every 60 miles by pulling off and riding down debris filled road shoulders to make the pee stop, maybe clipping a curb a few times too.
How many times since RV forums have been in existence have you seen someone admit they had a tire failure of some sort and it was their fault. I don't think I've ever seen one.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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What’s coincidental is I can relate to Huntindog and ST tires popping like popcorn in Phoenix in the summer and a few years later in Colorado. There was one constant among all of them. They were the early-mid 2000s GY Marathins.
I suppose I have an equal distaste for those as he does for trailer tires in general.
Although of the half dozen or so “blowouts” I know for sure 3 of them were due to low pressure and one of them, the 3rd one of the day lol and only went like 70 miles round trip to the lake, was a box of nails in the road pulling back into our subdivision after 3 fun filled hours of tire swapping at the lake and going to Walmart on a Sat afternoon for anything that would fit on the rims.
The other common theme was all of the suspect Marathons had spent about 4 years sitting out in the Phx/Vegas sun basically year round.
The low pressure issues was the guy who was towing our new boat up to us and “forgot” to fill the tires. When I brought him a spare 100miles from our house after 400miles on the road, 1 was at zero and in pieces and the other three were at 30-35psi on a hot sunny day.
So, I never bought Marathons, I haven’t run sun baked tires and I continue to make sure they are not running low on air.
Still, the recommendation to do whatever necessary even if impractical to get LT tires on basically any trailer in any conditions is just over the top.
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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Joined: 07/16/2003
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StonedPanther wrote:Huntindog wrote:CapriRacer wrote:As a tire engineer, I find these discussions very interesting. It's hard to sort out the experiences some had recently against someone who remembers the way it used to be long ago.
There was a time where LT tires didn't perform very well - which is why the government tests were changed. What we don't have is reliable information about current tires. This is partially because things have improved to the point where actual failures are fairly rare. I am on a few forums. One thing has not changed over my 30+ years of towing RVs.
Tire problems were, and still are easily the most common topic
That's because 95+% of folks on forums know as much about towing and trailer tires as they do when it comes to determining what end is the business end of a screwdriver.
My tire BLEW OUT LOL. That happened sometime after Joe Blowout took a long trip and stopped to pee every 60 miles by pulling off and riding down debris filled road shoulders to make the pee stop, maybe clipping a curb a few times too.
How many times since RV forums have been in existence have you seen someone admit they had a tire failure of some sort and it was their fault. I don't think I've ever seen one.
I did haha, my blowout last summer was from driving through a construction zone on the highway and having to be on the shoulder so I picked up something off the road, and the one on my old trailer with 9 year old tires was from hitting a pothole at a train track at 50mph which I totally should have seen. almost no such thing as a spontaneous failure, there's always some reason. with our massive dump trucks at the mine, we get the same thing. rolling over a rock the size of a fist puts stress on cords, and it doesn't blow then but as you roll over more rocks over the next few months the spot gets weaker and weaker and later down the road it lets lose.
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