DREAMER FMCA200924
GS Life member
2023 FR Sunseeker 2400B MBS
way2roll wrote:
Plain water. If you use enough water and flush your tanks, you don't need any chemicals. The length of time any solids are in your tank isn't nearly long enough for any enzymes to really do anything and they just end up in the recipients' septic system. Been using plain water for the past 7 years and never had an issue. I did install back flush systems on both grey and black and I can say it makes things much easier.
Plain water. If you use enough water and flush your tanks, you don't need any chemicals. The length of time any solids are in your tank isn't nearly long enough for any enzymes to really do anything and they just end up in the recipients' septic system. Been using plain water for the past 7 years and never had an issue. I did install back flush systems on both grey and black and I can say it makes things much easier.
x2
sgfrye wrote:
x2
way2roll wrote:
Plain water. If you use enough water and flush your tanks, you don't need any chemicals. The length of time any solids are in your tank isn't nearly long enough for any enzymes to really do anything and they just end up in the recipients' septic system. Been using plain water for the past 7 years and never had an issue. I did install back flush systems on both grey and black and I can say it makes things much easier.
Plain water. If you use enough water and flush your tanks, you don't need any chemicals. The length of time any solids are in your tank isn't nearly long enough for any enzymes to really do anything and they just end up in the recipients' septic system. Been using plain water for the past 7 years and never had an issue. I did install back flush systems on both grey and black and I can say it makes things much easier.
x2
X3
If you're getting odors, it more likely a venting problem.
Rob - Solo Full Timer
2017 Winnebago Travato 59G
Former 2006 Mandalay 40E
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
2017 Grand Design Imagine 2650RK
2019 F250 XLT Supercab
Just DW & me......
https://www.usautoauthority.com/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
![[image]](https://www.usautoauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/The-7-Best-RV-Holding-Tank-Treatments.jpg)
Don Ford
2004 Safari Trek 31SBD (F53/V10 20,500GVW)
'09 HHR 2LT or '97 Aerostar MiniVan (Remco driveshaft disconnect) for Towed vehicles
BlueOx Aventa II Towbar - ReadyBrake Inertia Brake System
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. Retired Building Inspector.
All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.
DFord wrote:
My Trek friends tipped me off to Happy Campers a few years ago and I've been using it ever since with excellent results. I put one scoop in the toilet and use my bowl mop to clean the toilet (and up under the ring) to keep the bowl sparkly and odor free, then flush. I put another scoop in the sink to swish it around to make sure it completely dissolves before releasing it to the tank. My Trek came with a black tank flush system and I added a diverter valve along with a flush spray for the greywater tank.
https://www.usautoauthority.com/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
My Trek friends tipped me off to Happy Campers a few years ago and I've been using it ever since with excellent results. I put one scoop in the toilet and use my bowl mop to clean the toilet (and up under the ring) to keep the bowl sparkly and odor free, then flush. I put another scoop in the sink to swish it around to make sure it completely dissolves before releasing it to the tank. My Trek came with a black tank flush system and I added a diverter valve along with a flush spray for the greywater tank.
https://www.usautoauthority.com/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
ScottG wrote:
I don't know if anything really disolves waste faster but thanks for using something. Otherwise, when you dump you stink up the entire CG or dump station.
I don't know if anything really disolves waste faster but thanks for using something. Otherwise, when you dump you stink up the entire CG or dump station.
If your connections are sealed properly, this shouldn't be an issue. But I get that a lot of people don't do things the way they are supposed to.
way2roll wrote:
If your connections are sealed properly, this shouldn't be an issue. But I get that a lot of people don't do things the way they are supposed to.
ScottG wrote:
I don't know if anything really disolves waste faster but thanks for using something. Otherwise, when you dump you stink up the entire CG or dump station.
I don't know if anything really disolves waste faster but thanks for using something. Otherwise, when you dump you stink up the entire CG or dump station.
If your connections are sealed properly, this shouldn't be an issue. But I get that a lot of people don't do things the way they are supposed to.
There's always a vent nearby, especially at dump stations, so no matter how tight the sewer connection is, the sudden influx of that much volume can force gasses out of them.
Of course, these are also the same cheap guys who wont replace a hose that only leaks "slightly" and even a little spillage reeks.
way2roll wrote:
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
Good point. How many other treatment chemicals publish their material data sheets? Has Coke ever published a list of their ingredients?
DFord wrote:
Good point. How many other treatment chemicals publish their material data sheets? Has Coke ever published a list of their ingredients?
way2roll wrote:
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
Good point. How many other treatment chemicals publish their material data sheets? Has Coke ever published a list of their ingredients?
That's why I don't drink Coke.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
way2roll wrote:
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
Could be that it is not a good idea to list "snake oil" as an ingredient when you are trying to sell a product.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
wopachop wrote:
I wonder how many campgrounds are on septic and have issues from different chemicals?
I wonder how many campgrounds are on septic and have issues from different chemicals?
I think this is primarily why formaldehyde was outlawed, but natural decomposition really only requires the proper bacteria which are of course natural. Additives like fragrances etc are hard on microbes. Tank conditioners with soaps, dyes, etc, wreak havoc on natural bacterial decomposition. Water should really be the only thing a properly maintained RV septic system should need. IMHO, If it smells, you have another issue.
Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2022 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, WindyNation 300 watt solar-Lossigy 200 AH Lithium battery. Prefer boondocking, USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, state camps. Bicyclist. 14 yr. Army -11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560) IOBC & IOAC grad
I've tried many different ones on the market. One works better than all the rest. Thetford Aqua-Kem.
*Deodorizer - Formulated to work in any weather condition, Aqua-Kem is packing the most powerful odor control available on the market.
*Waste liquefier - Clogging is no longer an issue, as Aqua-Kem breaks down solid materials, liquifying waste and toilet tissue fast and efficient.
*Detergent - The third component of the 3-in-1 formula is the detergent, which cleans the tank walls and drain lines, maintaining the tank and lines in top shape.
*SAFETY: The 100% biodegradable waste holding tank treatment is safe even for septic tanks.
*FUNCTIONALITY: Formulated as a 3-in-1 product, the formula holds a powerful deodorant, a waste liquefier, and detergent, eliminating odors, breaking down waste and cleaning the tank.
I've been using this product since the late 80s. I've dumped my tank into our septic tank on many occasions. Zero issues. No stink from the RV. Try anything else first if you wish. Just keep this one in mind if they don't work for you.
$21 for a gallon on Amazon. https://amzn.to/2Hc8foF
![[image]](http://2manytoyz.com/camp/thetford.jpg)
Robert
Merritt Island, FL
2023 Thor Quantum KW29
2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited TOAD
2023 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon TOAD
Falcon 2 Towbar, Roadmaster 9400 Even Brake System
http://www.2manytoyz.com/
2016 6.7 CTD 2500 BIG HORN MEGA CAB
2013 Forest River 3001W Windjammer
Equilizer Hitch
Honda EU2000
"I have this plan to live forever; so far my plan is working"
Tom Wilds
Blythewood, SC
2016 Newmar Baystar Sport 3004
2015 Jeep Wrangler 2dr HT
And it's just that; a tank. So when you open a hole in the top of it (like flushing) there's nothing to keep gasses from rising up out of the hole. There's no reason those gasses are going to choose to go up the vent rather than the toilet opening.
25 cents worth of chems (or less, I bought a lifetime supply at a garage sale for $2) and there is no smell.
I used the PO's supply up then discontinued using odor control chemicals because the RV park where I was staying asked me not to. They said it wreaked havoc with their septic system. Since then, I've used only water and sometimes some fairly clean used dishwater with liberal amounts of dish washing soap already in it. As long as I dump/flush the tanks every 2-3 weeks, no odor problems at all.
Chum lee
ScottG wrote:
Water alone is not going to keep a tank full of sewage from smelling.
And it's just that; a tank. So when you open a hole in the top of it (like flushing) there's nothing to keep gasses from rising up out of the hole. There's no reason those gasses are going to choose to go up the vent rather than the toilet opening.
25 cents worth of chems (or less, I bought a lifetime supply at a garage sale for $2) and there is no smell.
Water alone is not going to keep a tank full of sewage from smelling.
And it's just that; a tank. So when you open a hole in the top of it (like flushing) there's nothing to keep gasses from rising up out of the hole. There's no reason those gasses are going to choose to go up the vent rather than the toilet opening.
25 cents worth of chems (or less, I bought a lifetime supply at a garage sale for $2) and there is no smell.
Disagree. Water only for the past 7 years. Flush the tanks, use plenty of water each time I flush and always keep a few inches of water in the tank at a minimum. No smell.
way2roll wrote:
Disagree. Water only for the past 7 years. Flush the tanks, use plenty of water each time I flush and always keep a few inches of water in the tank at a minimum. No smell.
ScottG wrote:
Water alone is not going to keep a tank full of sewage from smelling.
And it's just that; a tank. So when you open a hole in the top of it (like flushing) there's nothing to keep gasses from rising up out of the hole. There's no reason those gasses are going to choose to go up the vent rather than the toilet opening.
25 cents worth of chems (or less, I bought a lifetime supply at a garage sale for $2) and there is no smell.
Water alone is not going to keep a tank full of sewage from smelling.
And it's just that; a tank. So when you open a hole in the top of it (like flushing) there's nothing to keep gasses from rising up out of the hole. There's no reason those gasses are going to choose to go up the vent rather than the toilet opening.
25 cents worth of chems (or less, I bought a lifetime supply at a garage sale for $2) and there is no smell.
Disagree. Water only for the past 7 years. Flush the tanks, use plenty of water each time I flush and always keep a few inches of water in the tank at a minimum. No smell.
I think I've been in line behind you at the dump station. I say your wrong.
BTW, the guys that dump and only use water stink the whole line up. Why is their water not working?
I've tried water only. I'm not going to be "that guy" at the CG again.
I'm gonna mount one on top my black tank vent!! At some point I meant to get a reversible fan for the bathroom roof vent. Same idea of keeping odors from rising out the toilet.
I never add chemical. Winter time it's no big deal. Summer temps i was having problems with what I think was gray tank smells. You guys told me to check the vent under the sink. I covered it with a plastic bag last year to test.
Will have to see how it goes this summer.
I think my trailer has tank vent caps that use wind to suck odors out the tank. Doesn't seem to work.
There was a time I goofed up and forgot to dump. Had the trailer on a jobsite. Flushing produced bad smells. Wish I had thought to put a fan on top the black tank vent.
wopachop wrote:
My friends all make fun of me for putting computer fans in weird spots.
I'm gonna mount one on top my black tank vent!! At some point I meant to get a reversible fan for the bathroom roof vent. Same idea of keeping odors from rising out the toilet.
I never add chemical. Winter time it's no big deal. Summer temps i was having problems with what I think was gray tank smells. You guys told me to check the vent under the sink. I covered it with a plastic bag last year to test.
Will have to see how it goes this summer.
I think my trailer has tank vent caps that use wind to suck odors out the tank. Doesn't seem to work.
There was a time I goofed up and forgot to dump. Had the trailer on a jobsite. Flushing produced bad smells. Wish I had thought to put a fan on top the black tank vent.
My friends all make fun of me for putting computer fans in weird spots.
I'm gonna mount one on top my black tank vent!! At some point I meant to get a reversible fan for the bathroom roof vent. Same idea of keeping odors from rising out the toilet.
I never add chemical. Winter time it's no big deal. Summer temps i was having problems with what I think was gray tank smells. You guys told me to check the vent under the sink. I covered it with a plastic bag last year to test.
Will have to see how it goes this summer.
I think my trailer has tank vent caps that use wind to suck odors out the tank. Doesn't seem to work.
There was a time I goofed up and forgot to dump. Had the trailer on a jobsite. Flushing produced bad smells. Wish I had thought to put a fan on top the black tank vent.
That would be a sweet mod; Some kind of fan on the vent that automatically kicks in while the toilet flush valve is open.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/cool.gif "cool")
Formaldehyde based: I'm told (rumor) they are illegal in some areas/states. Since I've not visited those areas I have to say "Rumor" (well have visited but not with RV and don't use 'em)
You wnat to PRESERVE the stuff for burial after death.. I think not
Odorants/De-odorants Generally not worth the money>
Biologicals... THey may work but I've yet to see evidence of it....
WATER.. Works well. Low cost
now some "hints"
The sensors work.. when brand new and likely never again (Will give false higher than actual level readings)
You can do a fairly good job of cleaning by adding about 1/3 tank water, 1 cup each DAWN dishwashing liquid (DO NOT use the anti-bacterial) an Calgon water softener compound (Liquid or powder) and Driving for an hour or so then dump again. Tank may show full (of bubbles) after dumping but may show empty (or not) a couple days later.
But be advise I make no guarantees and the phrase "May not work" applies.
I would only do this end of season.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times
What I post is my 2 cents and nothing more. Please don't read anything into my post that's not there. If you disagree, that's OK.
Can't we all just get along?
There are 2 ways to find the faults in the system. One is filling the system with water and finding the leak. The second is a plumbing smoke test.
Plumbing smoke tests are commonly done to find leaks in residential and commercial systems, Google it.
All About Sewer Gas Exposure: Causes, Symptoms ...
- Hydrogen sulfide is the primary gas in sewer gas. According to research , hydrogen sulfide has shown to be toxic to the oxygen systems of the body. In high amounts it can cause adverse symptoms, organ damage, or even death.
But go ahead and cover a known toxin up with a pleasant smell.
wopachop wrote:
My friends all make fun of me for putting computer fans in weird spots.
I'm gonna mount one on top my black tank vent!! At some point I meant to get a reversible fan for the bathroom roof vent. Same idea of keeping odors from rising out the toilet.
I never add chemical. Winter time it's no big deal. Summer temps i was having problems with what I think was gray tank smells. You guys told me to check the vent under the sink. I covered it with a plastic bag last year to test.
Will have to see how it goes this summer.
I think my trailer has tank vent caps that use wind to suck odors out the tank. Doesn't seem to work.
There was a time I goofed up and forgot to dump. Had the trailer on a jobsite. Flushing produced bad smells. Wish I had thought to put a fan on top the black tank vent.
My friends all make fun of me for putting computer fans in weird spots.
I'm gonna mount one on top my black tank vent!! At some point I meant to get a reversible fan for the bathroom roof vent. Same idea of keeping odors from rising out the toilet.
I never add chemical. Winter time it's no big deal. Summer temps i was having problems with what I think was gray tank smells. You guys told me to check the vent under the sink. I covered it with a plastic bag last year to test.
Will have to see how it goes this summer.
I think my trailer has tank vent caps that use wind to suck odors out the tank. Doesn't seem to work.
There was a time I goofed up and forgot to dump. Had the trailer on a jobsite. Flushing produced bad smells. Wish I had thought to put a fan on top the black tank vent.
Here's a solar powered vent fan for you without all your fussing.
![[image]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31fjPAULl8L._SY355_.jpg)
https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Fab-53-945001-Solar-Plumbing-White/dp/B004UQV3II
During my research for the last 40/50 years, I've determined no matter what you say, the waste in your black tank and often times even worse, your grey tank STINK! The longer is sits and the higher the temperatures, the worse the smell is.
If your sensor aren't working correctly, you're not flushing and maintaining your tank properly. There's no way around it. The sensor won't work if you think for a second you can get by without cleaning your tank good every so often. It's been awhile so yesterday, I drug the hose in through the window with the wand on it. I stuck in the toilet and flushed all around to make sure I had the tank clean from top to bottom and side to side. When I got done and checked my tank sensor, it showed only the bottom light. You MUST keep you dump valve closed and only dump when the tank is over 1/2 full. When you do flush, use plenty of water. Close the dump valve and allow the flush to fill the tank for 5 minutes and dump again - repeat. What comes out of your tank should be clear at this point with no sign of doody or toilet paper. Get one of the clear adapters so you can see what's coming out to make sure.
Fill the tank with a few gallons of water and add your chemicals so you don't offend your neighbors even if you can't smell your own.
I added a flusher to my grey tank to ensure it's clean after flushing. I haven't found it necessary to flush it every time but after dumping a few times, use the flush! I never leave my grey tank dump valve open either. Let it fill up and then let'er rip! It works a lot better that way. Otherwise, solids from the sinks will build up over time and cause the most awful stink I've ever smelled - worse than the black tank.
If your too lazy or too inconsiderate to maintain your tanks properly, you shouldn't expect others to put up with your ****.
I assume that when it says organic it means in the chemical sense, carbon-based, rather than in the no pesticides sense. (And yes,the definition of organic for foods is very tightly regulated.)
Formaldehyde is a carcinogen.
I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to breathe enough sewer gas to get hydrogen sulfide poisoning.
3/4 timing in a DIY van conversion. Backroads, mountains, boondocking, sometimes big cities for a change of pace.
Naio wrote:
I'm using a cassette toilet for the first time this year. Happy Camper made an enormous difference in the smell when I empty it. Very little smell now.
I assume that when it says organic it means in the chemical sense, carbon-based, rather than in the no pesticides sense. (And yes,the definition of organic for foods is very tightly regulated.)
Formaldehyde is a carcinogen.
I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to breathe enough sewer gas to get hydrogen sulfide poisoning.
I'm using a cassette toilet for the first time this year. Happy Camper made an enormous difference in the smell when I empty it. Very little smell now.
I assume that when it says organic it means in the chemical sense, carbon-based, rather than in the no pesticides sense. (And yes,the definition of organic for foods is very tightly regulated.)
Formaldehyde is a carcinogen.
I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to breathe enough sewer gas to get hydrogen sulfide poisoning.
Per the FDA - "FDA does not regulate the use of the term “organic” on food labels. "
And it's a moot point. Tank conditioners aren't meant for consumption so they aren't bound by the FDA or any other body overseeing organic claims. Lots of things are organic, that doesn't mean they are healthy. Asbestos is organic, so is Arsenic. And getting to the nitty gritty, the fairly dramatic warning label on Happy Camper says (paraphrasing) " Avoid contact with eyes, avoid prolonged contact with skin, do not swallow, avoid breathing dust, wash thoroughly after handling, flush thoroughly for eye and skin contact, get medical attention if any of the above occur" You get the point. Doesn't sound so warm and fuzzy to me. The fact there are all these warnings and unnamed ingredients - no thanks. Sounds more like they don't want to tell you whats in it and they don't have to since you don't eat it and they use "organic" because it's a marketing tool. If a product that's used to treat a condition invites greater risk than the condition itself - I'll stick with water.
way2roll wrote:
Per the FDA - "FDA does not regulate the use of the term “organic” on food labels. "
Naio wrote:
I'm using a cassette toilet for the first time this year. Happy Camper made an enormous difference in the smell when I empty it. Very little smell now.
I assume that when it says organic it means in the chemical sense, carbon-based, rather than in the no pesticides sense. (And yes,the definition of organic for foods is very tightly regulated.)
Formaldehyde is a carcinogen.
I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to breathe enough sewer gas to get hydrogen sulfide poisoning.
I'm using a cassette toilet for the first time this year. Happy Camper made an enormous difference in the smell when I empty it. Very little smell now.
I assume that when it says organic it means in the chemical sense, carbon-based, rather than in the no pesticides sense. (And yes,the definition of organic for foods is very tightly regulated.)
Formaldehyde is a carcinogen.
I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to breathe enough sewer gas to get hydrogen sulfide poisoning.
Per the FDA - "FDA does not regulate the use of the term “organic” on food labels. "
That's correct. The FDA doesn't regulate organics, and neither does my Aunt Sally. The regulation is done by the USDA:
https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Guide%20to%20Organic%20Certification.pdf
https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/CropProducersGuide.pdf
For example, as you can see in the second document, organic farms must have their soil tested each year for 3 years before they begin selling their produce as organic, and every year after that.
Quote:
Lots of things are organic, that doesn't mean they are healthy. Asbestos is organic, so is Arsenic.
Lots of things are organic, that doesn't mean they are healthy. Asbestos is organic, so is Arsenic.
You may be confusing natural with organic, but I see you agree with the point I was making. Formaldehyde and hydrogen sulfide are natural, too. I was assuming people reading this knew that ;-).
Quote:
And getting to the nitty gritty, the fairly dramatic warning label on Happy Camper says (paraphrasing) " Avoid contact with eyes, avoid prolonged contact with skin, do not swallow, avoid breathing dust, wash thoroughly after handling, flush thoroughly for eye and skin contact, get medical attention if any of the above occur"
And getting to the nitty gritty, the fairly dramatic warning label on Happy Camper says (paraphrasing) " Avoid contact with eyes, avoid prolonged contact with skin, do not swallow, avoid breathing dust, wash thoroughly after handling, flush thoroughly for eye and skin contact, get medical attention if any of the above occur"
Of course, that is also the warning label required on cooking flour, if it is sold for agricultural use, e.g. as in an ingredient in organic pest control. Anything that is a powder has to have this warning.
I'm not saying that Happy Camper is a natural or even a safe product. I'm just saying that this particular warning label, even though it sounds scary, is actually meaningless once you know how the requirements work.
Quote:
You get the point. Doesn't sound so warm and fuzzy to me. The fact there are all these warnings and unnamed ingredients - no thanks. Sounds more like they don't want to tell you whats in it and they don't have to since you don't eat it
You get the point. Doesn't sound so warm and fuzzy to me. The fact there are all these warnings and unnamed ingredients - no thanks. Sounds more like they don't want to tell you whats in it and they don't have to since you don't eat it
Yes. This is a massive flaw in the current regulation system. Ingredients labels are not required on everything. And then some of the ones that are required are ridiculously scary compared to the actual danger. I fully agree with you that we need better regulations on labeling.
Quote:
and they use "organic" because it's a marketing tool. If a product that's used to treat a condition invites greater risk than the condition itself - I'll stick with water.
and they use "organic" because it's a marketing tool. If a product that's used to treat a condition invites greater risk than the condition itself - I'll stick with water.
I think that's very wise.
Did you know what I was talking about when I said that organic has two meanings, one that is used in chemistry and a different, completely unrelated, one that is used in agriculture?
https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/10/30/acsh-explains-what-does-organic-really-mean-12045
I suspect that Happy Camper is taking advantage of the confusion that these two different definitions can cause. This level of disingenuousness does not give a very good impression.
way2roll wrote:
Plain water. If you use enough water and flush your tanks, you don't need any chemicals. The length of time any solids are in your tank isn't nearly long enough for any enzymes to really do anything and they just end up in the recipients' septic system. Been using plain water for the past 7 years and never had an issue. I did install back flush systems on both grey and black and I can say it makes things much easier.
Same here. The chemicals smell worse than the waste. It's a holding tank not a septic tank.Plain water. If you use enough water and flush your tanks, you don't need any chemicals. The length of time any solids are in your tank isn't nearly long enough for any enzymes to really do anything and they just end up in the recipients' septic system. Been using plain water for the past 7 years and never had an issue. I did install back flush systems on both grey and black and I can say it makes things much easier.
B.O.
Former Ram/Cummins owner
2015 Silverado 3500 D/A DRW
Yup I'm a fanboy!
2016 Cedar Creek 36CKTS
2019 Jayco Greyhawk 29MV
Lwiddis wrote:
Lots of water, fill before you dump, dump often and add four or so gallons after dumping. No chemicals needed.
Lots of water, fill before you dump, dump often and add four or so gallons after dumping. No chemicals needed.
ZACTLY!!!
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"
"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600
2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable
2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD
I also never clean my holding tank in any way. I simply fill the holding tank to maximum with water at the end of my trip, so that when I open the waste gate I get a "mega flush" pushing all the contents down the poop pipe.
As far as the smell when dumping, unless you are spilling sewage when dumping there should be no smells. The dump station at my storage lot has 2 dump entries - one a threaded PVC cleanout which I use with my threaded adapter, but there is also a traditional "flapper" hole in a cement bowl for people who only have a "elbow in the hole" type of dump.
If you are using the old "elbow in the hole" type of dump then you might have some smells escape. But I always use my threaded adapter so there is no leakage when I dump. Sometimes you get a whiff of gas coming out the "flapper" hole while I'm dumping down the clean-out hole, but oh well. You'll never smell it more than 5 feet away and in 10 years of RVing I've never once had anyone waiting behind me while I dump anyway.
It's cheaper not to use any chemicals, and it's better for the environment.
1990 Winnebago Warrior. "She may not look like much but she's got it where it counts!"
2008 Itasca Sunrise 32H, modified
Honda CRV toad
Ready Brute towbar
S1njin wrote:
I use Aqua-Kem in the little disposable bottles. Ive tried HC and the Porta-Paks but i prefer Aqua-Kem.
I use Aqua-Kem in the little disposable bottles. Ive tried HC and the Porta-Paks but i prefer Aqua-Kem.
X2 never had a problem. Put the remnants of the empty bottle mixed with water in the grey tank which works also
Proud father of a US Marine
I use water
In plumbing a smoke test forces non-toxic, artificially created smoke through waste and drain pipes under a slight pressure to find leaks. ... Plumbing smoke tests are also used to find places where pipes will spill fluid, and to check sanitary sewer systems for places where ground water and storm runoff can enter.
Prolonged exposure to Low or Moderate levels of Hydrogen Sulfide may result in the following: Skin irritation, shortness of breath, irritability, poor balance, poor memory, confusion, eye irritation, sore throat and cough, dizziness, headaches, fatigue, nasal and lung congestion, loss of appetite, nausea and vomiting.
wa8yxm wrote:
Gee all you folks throwing money down the drain,, LITERALLY THROWING MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN.
I use water
Gee all you folks throwing money down the drain,, LITERALLY THROWING MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN.
I use water
Amen
I'm a full timer that uses water as well! I did install a couple of those wind vanes that put slight negative pressure on tanks while driving down the road!
Hmmm, i need to get into the black tank chemical biz! Sounds like a money maker!
Robert McHenry
Currently, Henniker NH
07 Fleetwood Discovery 39V
1K Solar dieselrvowners.com
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Prior:1993 Pace Arrow 37' Diesel
DFord wrote:
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
Water only works, but if you don't get it, you don't get it. Thousands of people using only water with no issues. But I guess they are all wrong....
DFord wrote:
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
Shouldn't smell at all if the drain line is tight at both ends.
way2roll wrote:
I think this is primarily why formaldehyde was outlawed, but natural decomposition really only requires the proper bacteria which are of course natural. Additives like fragrances etc are hard on microbes. Tank conditioners with soaps, dyes, etc, wreak havoc on natural bacterial decomposition. Water should really be the only thing a properly maintained RV septic system should need. IMHO, If it smells, you have another issue.
wopachop wrote:
I wonder how many campgrounds are on septic and have issues from different chemicals?
I wonder how many campgrounds are on septic and have issues from different chemicals?
I think this is primarily why formaldehyde was outlawed, but natural decomposition really only requires the proper bacteria which are of course natural. Additives like fragrances etc are hard on microbes. Tank conditioners with soaps, dyes, etc, wreak havoc on natural bacterial decomposition. Water should really be the only thing a properly maintained RV septic system should need. IMHO, If it smells, you have another issue.
X2
way2roll wrote:
Water only works, but if you don't get it, you don't get it. Thousands of people using only water with no issues. But I guess they are all wrong....
DFord wrote:
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
Water only works, but if you don't get it, you don't get it. Thousands of people using only water with no issues. But I guess they are all wrong....
EXACTLY
Can you say roof vent stack?
Plus, I'm connected to septic and dump about every two weeks.
Bob & Dawn Married 34 years
2017 Viking 17RD
2011 Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost 420 lb/ft
Retired
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Shower nights, 2 times/week. If black tank nearing full I'll close gray b4 showers. After showers will dump black then open gray.
No pyramid in our black tank.
wopachop wrote:
I wonder how many campgrounds are on septic and have issues from different chemicals?
I wonder how many campgrounds are on septic and have issues from different chemicals?
Holly recreation area in Michigan. Dump station closed indefinitely since last year, due to leach field failure party due to overuse of tank chems. And now, with new code standards to meet, a new field is not going to work in the area they have for it.
2006 Silverado 1500HD Crew Cab 2WD 6.0L 3.73 8600 GVWR
2018 Coachmen Catalina Legacy Edition 223RBS
1991 Palomino Filly PUP
DFord wrote:
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
I've certainly been around when it happens. It's always some old guy who's too cheap and selfish to give a dang. He fouls a city block as those decent people behind him in line at the dump are forced to suffer.
* This post was edited 03/09/20 07:38pm by ScottG *
ScottG wrote:
I've certainly been around when it happens. It's always some old guy who's too cheap and selfish to give a dang. He fouls a city block as those decent people behind him in line at the dump are forced to suffer.
DFord wrote:
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
If anybody told me my s--t didn't stink I wouldn't believe them. I don't believe yours doesn't stink either. It simply defies reality. If you're using only water, I sure don't want to be around while you're dumping or for long while afterwards.
I've certainly been around when it happens. It's always some old guy who's too cheap and selfish to give a dang. He fouls a city block as those decent people behind him in line at the dump are forced to suffer.
We need a LIKE button.
I respect others opinions but not buying the plain ole water = no odor....been there done that.
I can tell you the odor is not there UNLESS you are running an exhaust fan when you flush.
way2roll wrote:
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
DFord wrote:
My Trek friends tipped me off to Happy Campers a few years ago and I've been using it ever since with excellent results. I put one scoop in the toilet and use my bowl mop to clean the toilet (and up under the ring) to keep the bowl sparkly and odor free, then flush. I put another scoop in the sink to swish it around to make sure it completely dissolves before releasing it to the tank. My Trek came with a black tank flush system and I added a diverter valve along with a flush spray for the greywater tank.
https://www.usautoauthority.com/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
My Trek friends tipped me off to Happy Campers a few years ago and I've been using it ever since with excellent results. I put one scoop in the toilet and use my bowl mop to clean the toilet (and up under the ring) to keep the bowl sparkly and odor free, then flush. I put another scoop in the sink to swish it around to make sure it completely dissolves before releasing it to the tank. My Trek came with a black tank flush system and I added a diverter valve along with a flush spray for the greywater tank.
https://www.usautoauthority.com/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
https://www.smartrving.net/best-rv-holding-tank-treatments/
Can't find anywhere what the list of ingredients are- Not on their website, google search, nothing. (material safety data sheet) Happy Campers consists of Zinc salts and unnamed materials. Happy Camper is a highly concentrated monohydrate (which is a fancy way of saying there is one molecule of water per molecule of the rest of the ingredients). blend of minerals and micro nutrients. Curious why they don't tell you what those micro nutrients are. I'm always cautious of products labelled as "organic" and "natural" as those claims are not really regulated and are used a lot in marketing and further cautious when it's really hard to find out what's actually in it.
I've wondered what is in there too.... like you, I can't find anything that documents the contents.
Joe
2013 Dutch Star 4338- all electric
Toad is 2015 F-150 with bikes,kayaks and Harley aboard
With that said, I am still a big fan of WATER and WATER alone. I sometimes use Happy Camper in the grey tank when I get some odors from an unknown source but only use it in the black if I am going to be dry camping for weeks at a time without dump facilities available.
2006 Jayco 28', E450 6.8L V10, Bilstein HDs,
Roadmaster Anti-Sway Bars, Blue Ox TigerTrak
Lwiddis wrote:
Lots of water, fill before you dump, dump often and add four or so gallons after dumping. No chemicals needed.
Lots of water, fill before you dump, dump often and add four or so gallons after dumping. No chemicals needed.
If you ever camped downwind from a dump station, you'll know exactly which RVs use tank treatment and which ones don't
If you are too cheap to use chemical in the black tank, and have no consideration for your fellow campers, stay home !!
Rich
'01 31' Rexall Vision, Generac 5.5k, 1000 watt Honda, PD 9245 conv, 300 watts Solar, 150 watt inv, 2 Cos 6v batts, ammeters, led voltmeters all over the place, KD/sat, 2 Oly Cat heaters w/ ox, and towing a 2012 Liberty, Lowe bass boat, or a Kawi Mule.
RambleOnNW wrote:
The people claiming water only works likely have a smelling problem.
The people claiming water only works likely have a smelling problem.
You're wrong.
RambleOnNW wrote:
The people claiming water only works likely have a smelling problem. We use Walex Porta-pak and Bio-pak tablets and have no odor, even when dumping. But if it sits for a couple of days in hot weather it will start to smell. We might not smell much inside but the vent gases will be strong outside.
The people claiming water only works likely have a smelling problem. We use Walex Porta-pak and Bio-pak tablets and have no odor, even when dumping. But if it sits for a couple of days in hot weather it will start to smell. We might not smell much inside but the vent gases will be strong outside.
Thank you! I have been downwind of too many water only folks over the years.
Lynnmor wrote:
Thank you! I have been downwind of too many water only folks over the years.
RambleOnNW wrote:
The people claiming water only works likely have a smelling problem. We use Walex Porta-pak and Bio-pak tablets and have no odor, even when dumping. But if it sits for a couple of days in hot weather it will start to smell. We might not smell much inside but the vent gases will be strong outside.
The people claiming water only works likely have a smelling problem. We use Walex Porta-pak and Bio-pak tablets and have no odor, even when dumping. But if it sits for a couple of days in hot weather it will start to smell. We might not smell much inside but the vent gases will be strong outside.
Thank you! I have been downwind of too many water only folks over the years.
I think you've been downwind of folks not using enough water. That is a common problem. I get that a lot of times you need to manage black and grey tank space, but often the result is not using enough water. Done properly - that's the key - there are no odors. Either way, these chemicals wreak havoc on the receiving septic systems they are dumped into. Of course most people have moved on after they dump and don't care - they should. A perfume to cover up a problem is not fixing the problem, it creates other problems. But there is a multi billion dollar market on cleaning and septic products that contain perfumes and dyes, caustic chemicals, or stuff they refuse to list on a label, etc to make people feel better because they mask odors. The odor doesn't magically disappear, it's a cover up. Your tanks don't sit long enough for anything to really break down. It's all snake oil. Lots of research to support they are not only horrible for the environment but to people too. But most people choose convenience and personal comfort over these impacts. I don't.
way2roll wrote:
I think you've been downwind of folks not using enough water. That is a common problem. I get that a lot of times you need to manage black and grey tank space, but often the result is not using enough water. Done properly - that's the key - there are no odors. Either way, these chemicals wreak havoc on the receiving septic systems they are dumped into. Of course most people have moved on after they dump and don't care - they should. A perfume to cover up a problem is not fixing the problem, it creates other problems. But there is a multi billion dollar market on cleaning and septic products that contain perfumes and dyes, caustic chemicals, or stuff they refuse to list on a label, etc to make people feel better because they mask odors. The odor doesn't magically disappear, it's a cover up. Your tanks don't sit long enough for anything to really break down. It's all snake oil. Lots of research to support they are not only horrible for the environment but to people too. But most people choose convenience and personal comfort over these impacts. I don't.
Lynnmor wrote:
Thank you! I have been downwind of too many water only folks over the years.
RambleOnNW wrote:
The people claiming water only works likely have a smelling problem. We use Walex Porta-pak and Bio-pak tablets and have no odor, even when dumping. But if it sits for a couple of days in hot weather it will start to smell. We might not smell much inside but the vent gases will be strong outside.
The people claiming water only works likely have a smelling problem. We use Walex Porta-pak and Bio-pak tablets and have no odor, even when dumping. But if it sits for a couple of days in hot weather it will start to smell. We might not smell much inside but the vent gases will be strong outside.
Thank you! I have been downwind of too many water only folks over the years.
I think you've been downwind of folks not using enough water. That is a common problem. I get that a lot of times you need to manage black and grey tank space, but often the result is not using enough water. Done properly - that's the key - there are no odors. Either way, these chemicals wreak havoc on the receiving septic systems they are dumped into. Of course most people have moved on after they dump and don't care - they should. A perfume to cover up a problem is not fixing the problem, it creates other problems. But there is a multi billion dollar market on cleaning and septic products that contain perfumes and dyes, caustic chemicals, or stuff they refuse to list on a label, etc to make people feel better because they mask odors. The odor doesn't magically disappear, it's a cover up. Your tanks don't sit long enough for anything to really break down. It's all snake oil. Lots of research to support they are not only horrible for the environment but to people too. But most people choose convenience and personal comfort over these impacts. I don't.
That may be true for you but not for others.
When I dump all the contents are dissolved like they are macerated. And no odor.
I always prefill my black tank with 8 gallons of water to cover the entire bottom with at least 1” of water. That registers as 1/3 full on the black tank sensor. That amount of water is not enough to prevent odors.
Many people have a reduced sense of smell. My late father could not smell much for the last 15 years of his life. Some say it is an early warning for Alzheimer’s.
Lynnmor wrote:
Test the water only theory in a porti-potty, or better yet try to run a potable toilet business without the blue stuff.
Test the water only theory in a porti-potty, or better yet try to run a potable toilet business without the blue stuff.
Might as well compare apples to basketballs.
2013 Sunset Trail 25RB TT
2015 Silverado 2500HD 4x4 6.0 l gasser.
Equilizer 4 pt
From Belle River, Ontario
2003 Mountain Star 890sbrx Truck Camper
Lynnmor wrote:
Test the water only theory in a porti-potty, or better yet try to run a potable toilet business without the blue stuff.
Test the water only theory in a porti-potty, or better yet try to run a potable toilet business without the blue stuff.
This post is nonsense. Ever seen a flush porti-potty? Of course not!