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Topic: HELP...Strange Tire Wear |
Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/26/18 10:23am
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Forest River RR19 toy hauler. Very strange wear on just one tire. These tires all have about 14,000 miles on them. Three of them look perfect but one tire has strange wear. this is rear, drivers side. Trailer has not had a "toy" in it during this 14K miles. So not overloaded. I jacked up trailer to check bearings and all are good. All bearings were replaced 3K miles ago. everything is good. No loose lug nuts, no loose bearings. Breaks are not rubbing. Why it is strange is that the wear is only in two spots. It is not consistant around the whole tire. Anyone ever seen anything like this? I'm going to install spare and monitor as I have 1200 miles to get home. RoyB Dartmouth, MA 2021 RAM 2500 4X4 6.4L 2011 Forest River Grey Wolf Cherokee 19RR 520 w solar-200ah Renogy Li-Epever MPPT |
Posted By: 2oldman
on 07/26/18 10:36am
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Is that showing the inside rib wearing out? I have the same thing on mine.
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Posted By: F100jetmech
on 07/26/18 11:15am
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It looks like the tire might be cambered (tilted) inward causing wear on the inside part of the tread.
'15 Ram 2500, 6.4 Hemi '06 S&S Montana Bitterroot 8.5ASC '04 Jetcraft 1625SK 16' boat '14 Salem Cruise Lite 261BHXL |
Posted By: jerryjay11
on 07/26/18 11:21am
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Two things come to mind: Bent axle or worn bearings.
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Posted By: SidecarFlip
on 07/26/18 12:05pm
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jerryjay11 wrote: Two things come to mind: Bent axle or worn bearings. Three things, you two and axle(s) out of alignment. That side member looks rough too. 2015 Backpack SS1500 1997 Ford 7.3 OBS 4x4 CC LB |
Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/26/18 12:07pm
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Bearing are less than 5000 miles. No slop and wheel spins fine with no noise. Yes, insde of tire is worn. I put a level on wheel and it is spot on. |
Posted By: 2oldman
on 07/26/18 12:18pm
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According to my tpms, the wheel runs about 4-7 degrees hotter than the others. Given that the bearing and spindle are ok, not sure why that would be. It sure seems obvious the wheel is out of plumb. Who could fix such a thing..or would it be ok to just live with it? |
Posted By: hawkeye-08
on 07/26/18 12:56pm
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The pictures above appear to show maintenance neglect on the suspension. Those zerks on the spring shackles are rusted and don't look like they have ever seen grease. You also appear to have a tire out of alignment, causing wear and increased tire temps. Hard to say what the alignment issue is, but a good alignment shop that handles trailers could identify it.
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Posted By: mike-s
on 07/26/18 01:09pm
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Looks like a bent (or poorly made) axle. The wheels/tires should be straight in line, but in the picture it looks like that tire is pointing outward compared to the other wheel/tire. Take a straight board, and see how the wheels/tires are aligned on both sides. Perfect would be the board contacts the sidewalls, front and back, on both tires. |
Posted By: Lynnmor
on 07/26/18 01:47pm
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We can't tell from here, but it could be bent axle or a bad tire. One sure thing is the total neglect of the suspension and that may have caused spring bushing wear.
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Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/26/18 02:15pm
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Thanks I'll check into these things. BTW, suspension was greased less than 2000 miles ago.
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Posted By: 2oldman
on 07/26/18 02:38pm
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Rbertalotto wrote: Watching this for resolution.
Thanks I'll check into these things. BTW, suspension was greased less than 2000 miles ago. |
Posted By: WayneAt63044
on 07/26/18 03:15pm
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Do I see a crack above where the spring support is welded to the main frame in the first picture? If so, that could cause alignment issues.
2012 Forest River V-Cross Vibe 826VFK pulled by 2009 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Hemi |
Posted By: PaulJ2
on 07/26/18 03:17pm
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I agree with Mike-S about the board thing. My guess is the left rear wheel is being drug a little bit sideways.
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Posted By: JBarca
on 07/26/18 06:38pm
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Hi, I will try and help. This pic of yours That wear pattern points to an excessive toe out condition. There may be a small amount of negative camber mixed in too. But I would suspect excessive toe out to the main issue. Basically, the wheel is at a toe'ed out (pointing outward) angle to the direction of camper travel. This condition creates a high scrub angle to the road and is burning/wearing up rubber just going forward. You mentioned you used a level on the wheel, that is a good quick check "but" in order for it to be accurate, the camper "must" be parked on a true level spot were both the left and right tires are on the same level spot. Once the pavement under the tires is dead level, then you can put a level on the rim and see what you have. A wheel that is exactly level means it has close to 0 degree camber. Which points towards the axle tube being at total capacity. Under less than total axle capacity, the top center of the wheel should be pointing outward from the camper indicting positive camber. When the top of the wheel points inward towards the camper that is negative camber and comes from axle overload or bent axle spindle/tube. Your level check may not be accurate. If you want to drill down into sorting this out yourself and you have access to some basic tools and some advanced the further you want to check it, see this post. TT axle alignment & install - Detailed (long lot's of pics) In the second paragraph is a link to my prior tire wear investigation. Between the 2 posts, a level, some spacers, a tape measure and an amount of knowing what to look for you can see big picture what may be going on. Your camper does not look new by the cracking paint/rust on the frame and do not know how many years you owned it or if you bought it used. You may have inherited a manufacturing issue from the factory with hanger locations being off. Or the axle tube became bent along the way. And that combined with excessive spring bushing wear and or axle weights. Have you ever weighed the camper axle by axle? And ideally by each wheel location. All 4 tires are not normally loaded equal. Many times 1 or 2 tires are loaded more than the rest. Camper floor plan and how much cargo is stored on which side can create a heavy wheel. On the heavy wheel the spring will flatten more and will change the location of the axle. This is normal but when the weights or spring gets very flattened, then it can be part of a tire wear issue along with other factors. Meaning this may be a combo problem, not one smoking gun. Since it "looks" like your truck mirrors are in the pic, this heavy wear tire is the left rear tire. Yes/no? That means the rear spring hanger and bushing set on that rear leaf spring is creating the location setting of the axle. If the hanger is out of location, the wheel will be out of location too and out of location in relation to the front axle assuming the front axle is even in the right location. And or the you have an axle spindle that is bent outward. Did this just happen, like in the last 4 months or you never towed that long and hard with it before to notice? Is this the 1st or 3rd set of tires on the camper you put on? If you measure tread depth across the face of all 4 tires you can see if all 4 wheels are rolling in alignment. The tire you have now, you said it is not wearing the same all the way around. HEADS UP, the tire may be coming apart inside. A spin test can help tell that. Jack up the camper and spin that rear tire. Place a board as a feeler across the OD tire face. Spin the tire slowly and mark where you started. The OD should run true round. If it has a section with a hump, the tire can be starting to come apart inside. See this video of me doing a spin test this spring when my BFG LT tires had tread separation. This was the 3rd one I caught before it let go. This link will take you to my Flick'er site with the short video https://flic.kr/p/HxGnZp This location was the out of round area The wood tire feeler touching the high spot The clearance off the high spot Inside the tire coming apart If you have an out of round bump condition like that, change that tire ASAP. It is on borrowed time. Put the spare on and be looking for a new tire to get back a working sound spare. In your situation you really do not want to be without a good working spare. You will be wearing the spare when you put it on in that location. Hope this helps Let us know what you find. John John & Cindy 2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10 CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package 21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR Ford Tow Command 1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam 2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver 2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR (I wish we were camping!) |
Posted By: 2oldman
on 07/26/18 06:49pm
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JBarca wrote: This is good stuff. In my case I'll bet I'm overloaded. Thanks!
Camper floor plan and how much cargo is stored on which side can create a heavy wheel. On the heavy wheel the spring will flatten more and will change the location of the axle. |
Posted By: beemerphile1
on 07/26/18 07:05pm
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One of two things are most likely, over loaded or bent axle. If only one is tire is affected, it pretty much rules out over loaded.
Build a life you don't need a vacation from. 2016 Silverado 3500HD DRW D/A 4x4 2018 Keystone Cougar 26RBS 2006 Weekend Warrior FK1900 |
Posted By: myredracer
on 07/27/18 07:01am
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Looks due to way off-camber. Maybe sagging springs, overloaded trailer or an unbalanced load could be causes but you say you've never had a toy in it. Ever been to a scale all fully loaded up tho? What is age (per date code) and load rating of tires? If original tires and 7-8 years old or more, time to replace all 4 anyway. I see that the 19RR toy hauler has about 4K lbs CCC on a GVWR of about 7500 lbs so it would take a lot to overload it without a toy in it. If you do go to a scale, try to get side-side and axle-axle wts or each wheel. As noted, underside of the trailer looks somewhat in need of TLC. Have the wet bolts ever been lubed? Equalizers okay? I would spend the couple hundred buck it takes for an inspection at a frame and axle shop and get a detailed inspection. Could be any number of things or a combination of them, some of which aren't always obvious. Don't forget to post the outcome! |
Posted By: The ugly duckling
on 07/27/18 11:48am
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Could be the internal tire belts are separating and breaking down. This break down causes increased tire temperatures and eventual blow out. ??
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Posted By: budwich
on 07/28/18 08:14am
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my guess looking at the picture, it appears that perhaps there is a "toe out" issue. I would check / measure the position of the "spring clip" where the axle tube bolts to the spring. Its position "pin" may have rusted / broke allowing the axle / wheel to move slightly back (you can check the measurement against those of the other spring positions)... although one would think that the "twist" would show up on the corresponding tire on the other side... but perhaps not.
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Posted By: KKELLER14K
on 07/28/18 03:56pm
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Did it come with the Dexter spring upgrade? Those zerks look like they have never been used but you should have the bronze bushings with this kit which is a plus. Check the alignment like mike-s suggests but I truly think it's a bent axle. If it were me, I would take the axle out and turn it around and see what happens when it's on the other side...if you get the same wear on that other side and the tire on the side that had the wear is now fine...it is bent. Does that make any sense? But if you get the same wear as before now that would be most likely be an out of aligned axle....take some measurements before you even start to make sure the spring brackets all match on both sides...good luck...its' a head-scratcher.
* This post was edited 07/28/18 04:10pm by KKELLER14K * |
Posted By: trail-explorer
on 07/28/18 06:34pm
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WayneAt63044 wrote: Do I see a crack above where the spring support is welded to the main frame in the first picture? I see it too. That was the first thing I noticed when reading this thread Bob |
Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/28/18 06:36pm
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Those zerks are greased regularly. Trailer has been in lots of mud and other nasty condition on hunting trips etc. Turns out, the wierd tire-wear was caused by a bent rim. This happened back in February when I lost a wheel bearing and nearly lost the wheel. The catistrophic failure of the bearing must have bent the center section of the wheel. Clear to see once the wheel was off and on the ground. I put the spare on and traveled 700 miles today and all is well. Thanks for all the help.....greatly appreciated. |
Posted By: bguy
on 07/28/18 07:04pm
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Check the axle U bolts. Friends had loose spring U bolts resulting in a broken center pin. * This post was edited 07/28/18 08:07pm by bguy * --------------------------------------- 2011 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, 4x4, 3.55, HEMI 2009 TL-32BHS Trail-Lite by R-Vision |
Posted By: jerem0621
on 07/28/18 08:14pm
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Is this a crack in the frame or a separation of the hanger or just an optical illusion? Thanks! Jeremiah TV-2022 Silverado 2WD TT - Zinger 270BH WD Hitch- HaulMaster 1,000 lb Round Bar Dual Friction bar sway control It’s Kind of Fun to do the Impossible ~Walt Disney~ |
Posted By: JBarca
on 07/28/18 08:35pm
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jerem0621 wrote: Is this a crack in the frame or a separation of the hanger or just an optical illusion? Thanks! Jeremiah Might be flaking paint |
Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/28/18 09:12pm
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I'll check in the AM...Thanks
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Posted By: All I could afford
on 07/29/18 11:33am
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This is what I love about this group! Most of us read the problem, look over the pictures, and put our collective opinions and experiences to work to find a solution. In this case, It would appear that the bent rim was the problem, however all the extra sets of eyes revealed what appears to be a crack to the OP’s attention. This can possibly prevent some future tragedy. I remember one time a few years ago when someone posted pictures of their new X Chocks in use on their wheels, and someone posted that something didn’t look Right... he had noticed in the picture that Both wheels lug nuts were installed backwards with the acorn taper facing out. Thank you to everyone that has helped me over the last seven years or so that I have been a travel trailer owner and member here 1999 R-Vision Trail Light B17 hybrid 2006 Explorer Eddie Bauer 2002 Xterra rollin’ on 33’s 1993 Chevy Z24 Convertible Lives in garage 71,000 miles |
Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/29/18 12:57pm
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I checked...not a crack. Just a piece of flaking paint. The chassis, spring perches, shakles, etc are all in great shape. I'm home now after two days and a bit over 1000 miles returning from Oshkosh Air Adventure 2018. |
Posted By: KKELLER14K
on 07/29/18 03:21pm
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SO AWESOME!! Well back to norms now... yes this is the best family of RV'rs ever on a forum...rookies take note of the old school here...we will figure it out with experience in the field, but we all learned something from the OP.. ..LOL!! Unusual tire wear is a sign of failure and should be taken very seriously. A tire bomb is no joke and could ruin your vacation or even kill someone...if you have this kind of issue it needs to be corrected ASAP! It is not if, but when? I also would say that a tire monitor system is a good investment and a good insurance policy if you want piece of mind...With that much friction it would have showed that that tire was overheating...and could have been corrected long before that much wear happened...surprised it didn't go BOOM! yet..
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Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/29/18 04:20pm
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TPMS will not show catastrophic heat build up. In February I had a major bearing failure. Completely ate the entire center section of the hub. There was nothing left of the bearing. My TPMS didn't notify me of anything. I found it when I stopped for gas and did my usual walk around. By the grace of God I didn't lose the wheel and tire. I spoke to the TPMS folks and they told me that the only temp the TPMS will read is internal and Extenal air temps. The problem I had didn't generate enough heat within the tire to trigger the alarm. I wish someone would make a hub temp monitoring system. I worry more about hubs than I do about tires..... In my case above, I doubt the internal temps would have gotten high enough to trigger the alarm. This is a brand new truck. I had to leave the TPMS system in the old truck and didn't have time to replace it for this trip. Not sure what system I'll go with. I was VERY dissatisfied with my last system. Lots of issues with it showing the trailer still attached even a half hour after I disconnected and drove off. And it would not have notified if a wheel had actually come off the trailer. It only showed decrease in pressure and very high temperatures......I could write a book on how poorly these aftermarket TPMS units are designed. |
Posted By: CharlesinGA
on 07/29/18 06:58pm
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About the frame rust. If the OP intends to keep and use the trailer, they need to do something. I probably would be difficult to impossible to get the frame sandblasted and painted. I would buy a large can of POR15 and a brush and paint over the rust, that is what the POR15 is intended for and it does this well, seals it to prevent continued rusting. You then must overcoat it with another paint as the POR15 is UV sensitive and must be protected from UV. Charles '03 Ram 2500 CTD, 5.9HO six speed, PacBrake Exh Brake, std cab, long bed, Leer top and 2008 Bigfoot 25B21RB.. previously (both gone) 2008 Thor/Dutchman Freedom Spirit 180 & 2007 Winnebago View 23H Motorhome. |
Posted By: jerem0621
on 07/29/18 08:04pm
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CharlesinGA wrote: About the frame rust. If the OP intends to keep and use the trailer, they need to do something. I probably would be difficult to impossible to get the frame sandblasted and painted. I would buy a large can of POR15 and a brush and paint over the rust, that is what the POR15 is intended for and it does this well, seals it to prevent continued rusting. You then must overcoat it with another paint as the POR15 is UV sensitive and must be protected from UV. Charles Great suggestion....I wire brushed my trailer tongue and painted it with Rustoleum paint many years ago. Here are some pics of the old gal. This is was our 1995 Layton. Before And after (note the old school Reese Dual cam system...still have it in the garage ready to go back into service ) and yes, that is a 1 inch rise ball on top of that hitch head...thanks to JBarca for that tip. I never had an issue with the back of the trunnions hitting the trailer frame. Thanks! Jeremiah |
Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/30/18 04:21am
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I'm s big fan of POR. Use it on boats and other vehicles. Use a simple garden sprayer to apply. Then s coat of two part rpoxy chassis paint. I just need to find the time to do this trailer.
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Posted By: Tvov
on 07/30/18 05:17am
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Learn something new everyday... is it common to have grease fittings on leaf spring suspensions? I think that is the first time I've seen that.
_________________________________________________________ 2021 F150 2.7 2004 21' Forest River Surveyor |
Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/30/18 05:44am
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Here is a whole article I wrote on the subject of Dexter E-Z Flex suspension upgrade http://rvbprecision.com/rv-projects/dexter-e-z-flex-suspension-upgrade.html Amazing that they don't do this at the factory.....it would add under $100 to the price of a trailer. The **** they install at the factory should be a crime! |
Posted By: 93Cobra2771
on 07/31/18 07:21am
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JBarca wrote: Hi, I will try and help. This pic of yours That wear pattern points to an excessive toe out condition. There may be a small amount of negative camber mixed in too. But I would suspect excessive toe out to the main issue. Basically, the wheel is at a toe'ed out (pointing outward) angle to the direction of camper travel. This condition creates a high scrub angle to the road and is burning/wearing up rubber just going forward. You mentioned you used a level on the wheel, that is a good quick check "but" in order for it to be accurate, the camper "must" be parked on a true level spot were both the left and right tires are on the same level spot. Once the pavement under the tires is dead level, then you can put a level on the rim and see what you have. A wheel that is exactly level means it has close to 0 degree camber. Which points towards the axle tube being at total capacity. Under less than total axle capacity, the top center of the wheel should be pointing outward from the camper indicting positive camber. When the top of the wheel points inward towards the camper that is negative camber and comes from axle overload or bent axle spindle/tube. Your level check may not be accurate. If you want to drill down into sorting this out yourself and you have access to some basic tools and some advanced the further you want to check it, see this post. TT axle alignment & install - Detailed (long lot's of pics) In the second paragraph is a link to my prior tire wear investigation. Between the 2 posts, a level, some spacers, a tape measure and an amount of knowing what to look for you can see big picture what may be going on. Your camper does not look new by the cracking paint/rust on the frame and do not know how many years you owned it or if you bought it used. You may have inherited a manufacturing issue from the factory with hanger locations being off. Or the axle tube became bent along the way. And that combined with excessive spring bushing wear and or axle weights. Have you ever weighed the camper axle by axle? And ideally by each wheel location. All 4 tires are not normally loaded equal. Many times 1 or 2 tires are loaded more than the rest. Camper floor plan and how much cargo is stored on which side can create a heavy wheel. On the heavy wheel the spring will flatten more and will change the location of the axle. This is normal but when the weights or spring gets very flattened, then it can be part of a tire wear issue along with other factors. Meaning this may be a combo problem, not one smoking gun. Since it "looks" like your truck mirrors are in the pic, this heavy wear tire is the left rear tire. Yes/no? That means the rear spring hanger and bushing set on that rear leaf spring is creating the location setting of the axle. If the hanger is out of location, the wheel will be out of location too and out of location in relation to the front axle assuming the front axle is even in the right location. And or the you have an axle spindle that is bent outward. Did this just happen, like in the last 4 months or you never towed that long and hard with it before to notice? Is this the 1st or 3rd set of tires on the camper you put on? If you measure tread depth across the face of all 4 tires you can see if all 4 wheels are rolling in alignment. The tire you have now, you said it is not wearing the same all the way around. HEADS UP, the tire may be coming apart inside. A spin test can help tell that. Jack up the camper and spin that rear tire. Place a board as a feeler across the OD tire face. Spin the tire slowly and mark where you started. The OD should run true round. If it has a section with a hump, the tire can be starting to come apart inside. See this video of me doing a spin test this spring when my BFG LT tires had tread separation. This was the 3rd one I caught before it let go. This link will take you to my Flick'er site with the short video https://flic.kr/p/HxGnZp This location was the out of round area The wood tire feeler touching the high spot The clearance off the high spot Inside the tire coming apart If you have an out of round bump condition like that, change that tire ASAP. It is on borrowed time. Put the spare on and be looking for a new tire to get back a working sound spare. In your situation you really do not want to be without a good working spare. You will be wearing the spare when you put it on in that location. Hope this helps Let us know what you find. John Follow all this and you will find your problem. If it were me, I'd start with the last item first - the tire wearing only in certain spots, plus that tire running hotter, to me says the you have a tread separation happening. Often, just jacking up that one tire and spinning it, while looking at the tread surface, will show "wobbles" or "humps" in the tread and/or sidewall. This needs immediate attention. Richard White 2011 F150 Ecoboost SCREW 145" 4x4 Firestone Ride-Rite Air Springs/Air Lift Wireless Controller 2006 Sportsmen by KZ 2604P (30') Hensley Arrow |
Posted By: Rbertalotto
on 07/31/18 08:07am
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Quote: Follow all this and you will find your problem. If it were me, I'd start with the last item first - the tire wearing only in certain spots, plus that tire running hotter, to me says the you have a tread separation happening. Often, just jacking up that one tire and spinning it, while looking at the tread surface, will show "wobbles" or "humps" in the tread and/or sidewall. This needs immediate attention Thanks....turned out to be a bent wheel. Which happened last February when I lost a wheel bearing. |
Posted By: jerem0621
on 07/31/18 09:35am
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Rbertalotto wrote: Quote: Follow all this and you will find your problem. If it were me, I'd start with the last item first - the tire wearing only in certain spots, plus that tire running hotter, to me says the you have a tread separation happening. Often, just jacking up that one tire and spinning it, while looking at the tread surface, will show "wobbles" or "humps" in the tread and/or sidewall. This needs immediate attention Thanks....turned out to be a bent wheel. Which happened last February when I lost a wheel bearing. Pretty easy fix...thanks for reporting back and letting us know. Thanks! Jeremiah |
Posted By: 93Cobra2771
on 07/31/18 10:26am
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Indeed - appreciate the followup.
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