Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: Leaf spring shackles are tilted

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Topic: Leaf spring shackles are tilted

Posted By: wopachop on 07/10/18 12:08am

My friends are saying its from the force of the trailer brakes? Its a triple axle and all the shackles stay tilted like this even after driving down flat roads.

The shackle will bottom out on the frame while going down driveways. Seems wrong. I tried making it straight with a jack but it bounces right back.

Should i slam the trailer brakes will driving in reverse?

[image]

Posted By: jkwilson on 07/10/18 05:49am

The equalizer moves as the driving surface changes or trailer load distribution changes. Is your trailer sitting level in the picture? Springs show the same bow? Tires and axles the same?

John & Kathy
2014 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS
2014 F250 SBCC 6.2L 3.73

Posted By: ScottG on 07/10/18 08:48am

It moves all the time in relation to bumps and other surface irregularities. For instance, in your pic it looks like the trailer is nose up in relation to the ground so they will sit like that.
It's acting perfectly normal.

* This post was edited 07/10/18 09:35am by ScottG *

Posted By: time2roll on 07/10/18 08:55am

Hanger is mounted slightly off. In the foreground the hanger needs to be positioned to the left a bit.

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Posted By: N-Trouble on 07/10/18 08:55am

Its pretty obvious from the pic the trailer is sitting nose high. There’s your answer...

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Posted By: N-Trouble on 07/10/18 09:04am

time2roll wrote:

Hanger is mounted slightly off. In the foreground the hanger needs to be positioned to the left a bit.

Say what?? ALL the equalizers are at the same angle.

Posted By: amxpress on 07/10/18 09:24am

Adjust your brakes and drive on.

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Posted By: fj12ryder on 07/10/18 09:48am

Take it to a trailer shop and have them check the spacing of the axles. Hard to tell from that picture if the trailer isn't sitting level.

Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

Posted By: wopachop on 07/10/18 09:59am

amxpress wrote:

Adjust your brakes and drive on.

Reduce pressure? Im pretty sure the trailer has been like this for a year. Even after multiple trips. Its like this resting position is somehow locked in.

Was thinking i could drive in reverse and hit the manual trailer brake button. Get it all to shift back. Thats just a guess.

Posted By: wopachop on 07/10/18 10:01am

Thanks everyone the trailer is sitting on flat ground and i used a level on the frame.

Posted By: time2roll on 07/10/18 10:04am

N-Trouble wrote:

time2roll wrote:

Hanger is mounted slightly off. In the foreground the hanger needs to be positioned to the left a bit.

Say what?? ALL the equalizers are at the same angle.

Yes the error appears to be very balanced and consistent.

Could be the spacing has changed if the springs are worn and flattened.

Posted By: ScottG on 07/10/18 10:11am

wopachop wrote:

Thanks everyone the trailer is sitting on flat ground and i used a level on the frame.

And that is why the equalizers are how they are. If you level the trailer on unlevel ground, they will adjust just how you see them.

Posted By: wnjj on 07/10/18 10:18am

wopachop wrote:

Thanks everyone the trailer is sitting on flat ground and i used a level on the frame.

The ground is flat but is it level? The trailer needs to be parallel to the ground to have the axles each carry their share. If they are and the equalizers are still tilted, something is off.

Posted By: wopachop on 07/10/18 10:22am

time2roll wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:

time2roll wrote:

Hanger is mounted slightly off. In the foreground the hanger needs to be positioned to the left a bit.

Say what?? ALL the equalizers are at the same angle.

Yes the error appears to be very balanced and consistent.

Could be the spacing has changed if the springs are worn and flattened.

Yes thanks for taking the time to closely view the pic. It shows 3 of the equalizers and they are very consistent.

My friends think its the force of the trailer brakes. Sorta like tapping the rear brake on a motorcycle to make the front end nose down.

Posted By: wopachop on 07/10/18 10:26am

Sorry im forgetting flat versus level.
Yes the driveway is both flat and very close to level.

But it doesnt seem to matter. I can drive 4 hours down the highway. Pull over to a flat and level gas station and the equalizers are still like this. Its their "resting position" even while on level ground.

Posted By: time2roll on 07/10/18 11:02am

I don't think it has anything to do with the brakes. Once the brakes are released all components will return to a resting position.

How old is the trailer? From the picture the springs seem OK.
Has this changed recently or just starting to notice things?

Posted By: wopachop on 07/10/18 11:18am

Trailer is a 2013 forest river. Previous owner had optional 3rd axle installed. I bought the trailer last July almost to the day. I noticed this issue a year ago and posted on FB. Lots of my friends have trailers.

Best guess people had was the force from the trailer brakes.

Posted By: mike-s on 07/10/18 11:25am

Measure everything - eye to eye on the springs, hub/axle center to hub/axle center on the axles, eyes to hub/axle center on each axle, hole to hole on the hangers. Everything should be equal and centered.

It will sit like that if the center axle is mounted forward of center on the springs - that puts more load on the front end of the spring, pushing it higher in front and dropping it down in the rear. (I'm assuming front is to the right in the picture)

* This post was edited 07/10/18 11:31am by mike-s *

Posted By: Artum Snowbird on 07/10/18 11:28am

I wonder about the weight on the front and the back of the center axle? By the look of the position of the hangers, the front of the center spring is pushing down heavier, and the back of the center spring is lighter.

If this is the same on both sides, you could measure the distance from the front of the spring to the axle and see if possibly the U bolts should be moved a bit forward on the spring pack.

I would definitely have a spring shop give you an expert opinion.

Mike
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previously Snowbird Campers,
Triple E Motorhome and Fifth Wheel

Posted By: time2roll on 07/10/18 11:31am

Need to make your own drawing and compare to spring specs etc.
Yes a bit tedious to prove the geometry is correct.

[image]

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Suspension/etrailer/APTT5.html
(scroll down a bit to see this kit specifications)

Note A & C are same and B a bit longer. D should be same.

Posted By: wopachop on 07/10/18 12:44pm

Thanks everyone i will first try cranking the nose of the trailer super high. See how the shackle looks. In the picture the front is to the left.

Its a toyhauler that gets shaken like crazy down washboard roads. Wonder if an axle slipped a little on a spring as someone here mentioned. Will have to get down there and measure.

Heres a newb question. I tried looking this up months ago and didnt find an answer i trusted. Can you use an automotive jack and jack stands to get the entire trailer in the air? Starting on one side, and working around. Can that twist and mess up the frame?

Posted By: fj12ryder on 07/10/18 12:55pm

wopachop wrote:

Was the third axle added at the factory? If not at the factory, I would suspect that it was improperly installed. AFATG I would suspect that even if it were installed at the factory. A knowledgeable shop can take a look, do some measuring, and tell you what the issue is.

An online forum can give you well meaning advice, but it really needs some eyes, and hands on evaluating.

Posted By: K Charles on 07/10/18 01:41pm

The picture shows the nose high.you say the trailer is level, is the ground level?

Posted By: johntank on 07/10/18 01:44pm

wopachop wrote:

Does your equalizers look like the drawing posted by time2roll,if so it has one flaw to it, it shows all equalizers using shackles, from what I know is that the middle axle needs one of the equalizer to have a spring eye end to hold the springs and axle in the right position.
From what I can tell from your posted pic this is your problem.

Posted By: fj12ryder on 07/10/18 03:10pm

K Charles wrote:

The picture shows the nose high.you say the trailer is level, is the ground level?

How can you see that the trailer is nose high. Is there any way to tell which direction is toward the nose? And given the tight focus, how can say it's nose high? Better eyes than mine.

Posted By: time2roll on 07/10/18 03:12pm

wopachop wrote:

Heres a newb question. I tried looking this up months ago and didnt find an answer i trusted. Can you use an automotive jack and jack stands to get the entire trailer in the air? Starting on one side, and working around. Can that twist and mess up the frame?

That is how I put mine up. I had to make some cribbing to get enough lift on the floor jack.

I use two pair 12 ton jack stands from Harbor Freight to hold it up. Standard jack stands may not be tall enough.

Posted By: fj12ryder on 07/10/18 03:17pm

johntank wrote:

wopachop wrote:

Not necessarily, some trailers will use the same equalizers at all positions. This link shows the same diagram as time2roll has posted: Suspension components

Posted By: johntank on 07/10/18 05:07pm

fj12ryder wrote:

johntank wrote:

wopachop wrote:

Not necessarily, some trailers will use the same equalizers at all positions. This link shows the same diagram as time2roll has posted: Suspension components

This might be true, but IMO this why he has the problem he posted about. I will say if he would replace one pair of equalizers that holds the spring at the eye for the center axle this would not happen. BTW your link showed equalizers for slipper springs.

Posted By: fj12ryder on 07/10/18 05:11pm

Okay, here's one for double eye leaf springs, and it shows all equalizers are the same. Leaf spring equalizer

Posted By: wopachop on 07/10/18 05:34pm

Thanks for the help and links everyone. The "problem" was just like some of you said. The trailer is simply not parallel to the ground. I knew the driveway sloped very slightly to the right. I didnt think it was enough to make the equalizers look that bad. Lack of experience on my part.

Might not come through in the picture but the concrete is pretty close to level. (i thought)
Once it turns to dirt then it really begins to slope. To me thats why the nose is so much lower than the rear. I still considered the ground and trailer to be level....ish.

Used a tape measure from the ground to the frame on either side of the tires. Once those numbers were the same the equalizers looked nice and even. Sheeesh!!! My bad.

Thanks again everyone.
[image]

Posted By: wnjj on 07/10/18 11:09pm

wopachop wrote:

That makes sense. Consider that the height of the frame above the ground at each axle is determined by the average height of both ends of the spring. Then look at your first picture, ignore the center axle and just look at the front and rear springs. Each have one end on fixed shackles so the same distance from the frame. One of them has the equalizer end up closer to the frame and the other down further from the frame. This means the frame is not the same height above the ground over those 2 axles. The center one just responds to whatever the end ones cause the equalizers to do.

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