A Zamp 2000 watt pure sine model ZP-2000ps. What gauge wire would I need to get optimal use from this? (Figure 10 feet from battery to inverter). This is the one I'll probably use as this is what I had in mind when I bought it.
or
a Zamp 600 watt pure sine model ZP-600ps. What gauge wire would I need if I decided to install this model instead. (Figure 10 feet from battery to inverter).
Is voltage drop a concern in this kind of setup, or is that mostly a concern with solar installs?
Thanks
2001 Suburban 4x4. 6.0L, 4.10 3/4 ton
2005 Jayco Jay Flight 27BH
1986 Coleman Columbia Popup.
For my 2800 watt 4000 watt surge inverter I used 4-ought #0000 welding cable, 12 feet total round trip which includes 6 feet for the cable linking four batteries in parallel.
Keep your DC cables very short and use an extension cord at the output to get AC where you need it.
2013 KZ Sportsmen Classic 200, 20 ft TT
2020 RAM 1500, 5.7 4x4, 8 speed
Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2022 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, WindyNation 300 watt solar-Lossigy 200 AH Lithium battery. Prefer boondocking, USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, state camps. Bicyclist. 14 yr. Army -11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560) IOBC & IOAC grad
zamp seems to have a very brief manual with no specific install instructions.
https://www.zampsolar.com/manuals-and-instructions
I recommend 4/0 wire for the 2000 watt and #4 for the 600 watt. Probably 250 amp fuse and 100 amp fuse respectively.
http://www.genuinedealz.com/custom-cables
2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up
Hint: A 2000w inverter loaded to 2000 will pull 200 amps from the battery bank (use the "divide by 10 rule" which also covers efficiency losses)
EG, I have a 2000w inverter that says to use a 500amp ANL fuse and 1/0 wire up to 6 ft and 3/0 wire up to 10 ft. Over 10 ft they say to call their tech support.
Other 2000 w inverter specs say use a 250 fuse instead of that 500 but apparently the 500 is to cover for the inverter's surge rating of 4000w. Anyway you do know you need to fuse for at least 200 amps on the wire.
On 2000 vs 600, note that the 2000 will run everything (some one at a time) like your microwave, toaster, kettle, etc. The 600 is too small for many things but will do the television etc. For running the fridge on 120v going down the road, people have learned that a 600 is marginal for that too--a 1000 does work for that.
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.
opnspaces wrote:
Is voltage drop a concern in this kind of setup, or is that mostly a concern with solar installs?
Not sure what you mean there...solar wiring is a different subject.
Is voltage drop a concern in this kind of setup, or is that mostly a concern with solar installs?
Those little electrons have to make the round-trip!
Brett Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'FDDS
Ex: 1997 Safari 35'
Ex: 1993 Foretravel U240
Diesel RV Club:http://www.dieselrvclub.org/
My Magnum manual recommends doubled 4/0 cabling for longer runs, but they really discourage it.
opnspaces wrote:
A Zamp 2000 watt pure sine model ZP-2000ps. What gauge wire would I need to get optimal use from this? (Figure 10 feet from battery to inverter).
A Zamp 2000 watt pure sine model ZP-2000ps. What gauge wire would I need to get optimal use from this? (Figure 10 feet from battery to inverter).
By optimal use I'm guessing you actually mean "maximum" - if so, a 2000 watt 12 vdc input inverter would pull ~ 167 amps at full load.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/eek.gif "eek")
If you're "guessing" 10' from the battery to the inverter that means a 20' run so this chart tells us to carry that load over that length of cable you would need to use at least really heavy 0 AWG cable, better still 2/0 AWB. You really want to do this when you have no specific need in mind? ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/miOuMcyl.jpg)
Case in point - I mounted a 1000 watt PSW inverter in my trailer's front pass through storage compartment and have 6' of 4 gauge running out to the tongue mounted battery. For full load this isn't heavy enough wire gauge but the most I ever pull at any given time with this inverter is no more than 70 amps. You might consider what you really intend to use this inverter for, then wire it for that application.
Some use an inverter "whole house", meaning the inverter's output feeds the entire trailer, either via a transfer switch or simply by plugging the trailer's main service cable into it. I did that myself initially but later wired in dedicated duplex receptacles in key locations inside the trailer, and one outside, so I can access the inverter output directly by simply plugging into those receptacles. Pics are in my gallery.
2012 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2003 Fleetwood Yuma * 2008 K-Z Spree 240BH-LX
2007 TrailCruiser C21RBH * 2000 Fleetwood Santa Fe
1998 Jayco 10UD * 1969 Coleman CT380
Soundguy said he doesn't pull more than 70A. What would cause that kind of load? I can't imagine anything in my trailer that would pull a large load except maybe the microwave. How do I figure out the draw from it. Do I divide 120/4=30A?
The tag says 120V A.C 60Hz 13.0A single phase
Power Consumption 1.5KW
Maximum Output 1000W*, Water load 275ML
Normal operating voltage 4.0KV
Are two 10 gauge wires in series the same as one 5 gauge? Or is it more like the same as a 7 gauge because of losses?
opnspaces wrote:
wow, thanks for the education everyone and thanks Soundguy for the chart. It looks like I better figure out realistically how long my run will be so I can if I really want to do this and how much it will cost.
Soundguy said he doesn't pull more than 70A. What would cause that kind of load?
wow, thanks for the education everyone and thanks Soundguy for the chart. It looks like I better figure out realistically how long my run will be so I can if I really want to do this and how much it will cost.
Soundguy said he doesn't pull more than 70A. What would cause that kind of load?
We normally camp on electric sites but I installed an inverter for those times we may lose shore power. In those cases I can still power our toaster which draws a measured 696 watts or our coffee maker which draws 505 watts. At a nominal 12 volts that's ~ 58 amps & ~ 42 amps respectively. The question though in your case is, aside from heavy wiring necessary to make the most of a 2000 watt inverter what do you intend to use to power the inverter, 'cause a single battery sure isn't going to do it?
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
Best to stay away from parallel wires unless the inverter has dual input terminals. Get the right stuff. I posted a link above.
As far as equivalent wire you need to convert to circular mils to add the cross section of copper. But again try to stay away from parallel.
Cross section area is on this ampacity chart:
http://www.genuinedealz.com/voltage-drop-calculator
Need 4x #10 to make #4
Why is the inverter being installed so far from the batteries?
Coffeemaker 950 watts
24 oz brew 55F water
At 120vac one minute fifteen seconds
At 100vac two minutes thirty (five?) seconds
Microwave. 8oz russet potato
Seven minutes
Eleven and a half minutes
" Need 4x #10 to make #4 "
Double wire drop three sizes 2x10 9-8-7 (seven gauge)
Works with AWG. SAE wire gauge doesn't cut it...
GordonThree wrote:
10 feet is 5 feet too many for a 2000 watt in my humble opinion. Remember round trip, whatever your wire length is, double it, since you have a positive and negative wire, and the electricity flows through both. Voltage drop is a very real concern especially under heavy load.
For my 2800 watt 4000 watt surge inverter I used 4-ought #0000 welding cable, 12 feet total round trip which includes 6 feet for the cable linking four batteries in parallel.
Keep your DC cables very short and use an extension cord at the output to get AC where you need it.
10 feet is 5 feet too many for a 2000 watt in my humble opinion. Remember round trip, whatever your wire length is, double it, since you have a positive and negative wire, and the electricity flows through both. Voltage drop is a very real concern especially under heavy load.
For my 2800 watt 4000 watt surge inverter I used 4-ought #0000 welding cable, 12 feet total round trip which includes 6 feet for the cable linking four batteries in parallel.
Keep your DC cables very short and use an extension cord at the output to get AC where you need it.
X 2
Zamp is pricey compared to some other inverters. Unless you have it already I'd suggest something else.
The inverter needs to be as close as humanly possible to the battery bank without being in the same compartment.
My wire run is about four feet--and that is LONG for a 3k unit.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
Do it right the first time, welding cable isn't very expensive.
There's no penalty for using heavier cable than necessary. And when it comes time to run a large load, heavier cable means less drop, which means your inverter isn't working quite as hard. Turning 13v into 120v is easier than 11v into 120v.
2oldman's suggestion is SPOT ON. If you're just building the system and haven't bought anything yet. Go for higher voltage. 8x golf cart batteries (or a lithium pack) gets you a nice 48v system. This lets you use lighter cable, and everything else is much more efficient. An inexpensive DC-DC converter provides 12v for small loads like pump, lights, etc.
)The inverter needs to be handy to where I can swap between having the shore power cable into the inverter and shore power cable out to a pedestal or portable gen. The converter does not get plugged into anything when the shore power cable is plugged into the inverter.
The inverter has two each pos and neg terminals. 3 foot #4 cables for all, across the two 100AH AGMs balanced. I have zero issues with running the microwave for several minutes at a time a few times a day.
It was also easy in the 5er to get the inverter close to its batteries. If I had a TT, I would be looking at AGMs so I could keep them inside like I do with the Class C, which would allow the inverter to have a short wire run to the batts inside the TT.
opnspaces wrote:
I am going to install an inverter in my trailer and am curious about what gauge wire I need to run from the batteries. To be honest I really don't have an application or device I want to run off it. I just want to do it for the "because I can" factor. I plan to mount the inverter against the front wall of the trailer so I don't imagine more that ten feet of DC wiring from batteries to inverter. Below is what I have to work with since I already own them.
A Zamp 2000 watt pure sine model ZP-2000ps. What gauge wire would I need to get optimal use from this? (Figure 10 feet from battery to inverter). This is the one I'll probably use as this is what I had in mind when I bought it.
or
a Zamp 600 watt pure sine model ZP-600ps. What gauge wire would I need if I decided to install this model instead. (Figure 10 feet from battery to inverter).
Is voltage drop a concern in this kind of setup, or is that mostly a concern with solar installs?
Thanks
I am going to install an inverter in my trailer and am curious about what gauge wire I need to run from the batteries. To be honest I really don't have an application or device I want to run off it. I just want to do it for the "because I can" factor. I plan to mount the inverter against the front wall of the trailer so I don't imagine more that ten feet of DC wiring from batteries to inverter. Below is what I have to work with since I already own them.
A Zamp 2000 watt pure sine model ZP-2000ps. What gauge wire would I need to get optimal use from this? (Figure 10 feet from battery to inverter). This is the one I'll probably use as this is what I had in mind when I bought it.
or
a Zamp 600 watt pure sine model ZP-600ps. What gauge wire would I need if I decided to install this model instead. (Figure 10 feet from battery to inverter).
Is voltage drop a concern in this kind of setup, or is that mostly a concern with solar installs?
Thanks
Use #2 wire (yes, big fat cable) and you will be glad you did. Many places can make a cable of any length with whichever type end connector you need.
What I post is my 2 cents and nothing more. Please don't read anything into my post that's not there. If you disagree, that's OK.
Can't we all just get along?
GordonThree wrote:
If you're just building the system and haven't bought anything yet. Go for higher voltage. 8x golf cart batteries (or a lithium pack) gets you a nice 48v system. This lets you use lighter cable, and everything else is much more efficient. An inexpensive DC-DC converter provides 12v for small loads like pump, lights, etc.
If you're just building the system and haven't bought anything yet. Go for higher voltage. 8x golf cart batteries (or a lithium pack) gets you a nice 48v system. This lets you use lighter cable, and everything else is much more efficient. An inexpensive DC-DC converter provides 12v for small loads like pump, lights, etc.
The OP said in his opening post - "I am going to install an inverter in my trailer and am curious about what gauge wire I need to run from the batteries. To be honest I really don't have an application or device I want to run off it. I just want to do it for the "because I can" factor." Now you want him to jump to EIGHT GC-2s or even lithium packs?!! Good grief.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
Load test, run the 13.5 A/C and the microwave, the inverter heats up a bit, that fan gets going good but the battery cables stay nice and cool while carrying almost 300 amps.
I'd go for a 48 volt system with a 48 dc to 12 dc converter to power the standard house loads.
For a really cool system there is now a way to use individual grid tied inverters on an RV. This simplifies the system by eliminating the charge controller, and #12 wire can be used from the panels to the inverter.
GordonThree wrote:
Gotta love AGM for their flexibility. My setup sounds sounds similar to BFL13's ... I have my 2800w inverter snuggled with four G31 12v AGM under a heavily reinforced dinette seat. More than four years now, no issues with anything. It's a bit untidy, I left slack in my 4/0 welding cable to be able to pull out the inverter without disconnecting the batteries, for troubleshooting or whatever.
Load test, run the 13.5 A/C and the microwave, the inverter heats up a bit, that fan gets going good but the battery cables stay nice and cool while carrying almost 300 amps.
Gotta love AGM for their flexibility. My setup sounds sounds similar to BFL13's ... I have my 2800w inverter snuggled with four G31 12v AGM under a heavily reinforced dinette seat. More than four years now, no issues with anything. It's a bit untidy, I left slack in my 4/0 welding cable to be able to pull out the inverter without disconnecting the batteries, for troubleshooting or whatever.
Load test, run the 13.5 A/C and the microwave, the inverter heats up a bit, that fan gets going good but the battery cables stay nice and cool while carrying almost 300 amps.
Sort of. In our Class C, the regular sealed/vented battery box is under a dinette seat. It will hold two 6s or similar. Has access door to outside.
I put the two AGMs inside under the sink counter for the inverter-only job, and still have the OEM battery box under the dinette for the regular 12v job the house batts do. I gave each battery bank its own converter/charger and solar set. (I also have a second set of batteries added to the "house 12v set" but down farther in another outside compartment, making four that do the 12v stuff. Had to drill holes to pass wires.
So in a TT I would leave the tongue battery bank as is, and use it for the same old 12v stuff, and add a second battery bank of AGMs inside just to do the inverter 120v stuff.
I really like having the inverter 11v alarm business free from the regular house batts, that might get too low running the furnace and then not be able to make toast using the 120v toaster for breakfast. Yipes! Have to use the horrible bread-burner on top of the propane stove for making toast? Never again!
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/frown.gif "frown")
time2roll wrote:
If the tag says 13 amps load you can count on close to 130 amps from the 12 volt battery. (amps x10)
Best to stay away from parallel wires unless the inverter has dual input terminals. Get the right stuff. I posted a link above.
As far as equivalent wire you need to convert to circular mils to add the cross section of copper. But again try to stay away from parallel.
Cross section area is on this ampacity chart:
http://www.genuinedealz.com/voltage-drop-calculator
Need 4x #10 to make #4
If the tag says 13 amps load you can count on close to 130 amps from the 12 volt battery. (amps x10)
Best to stay away from parallel wires unless the inverter has dual input terminals. Get the right stuff. I posted a link above.
As far as equivalent wire you need to convert to circular mils to add the cross section of copper. But again try to stay away from parallel.
Cross section area is on this ampacity chart:
http://www.genuinedealz.com/voltage-drop-calculator
Need 4x #10 to make #4
I didn't think I was calculating that correctly. So that's 130 Amps. Is there a time factor in that? actually I think I'll start a new post for that question so this hopefully stays on track.
And thanks for the link above for ordering wire. I try to support the local guy so I'll try the local welding supplier first. But if the price difference is large enough I'll have to go online.
GordonThree wrote:
10 gauge is speaker wire, not suitable for an inverter. Where did 10 gauge come from?
Why is the inverter being installed so far from the batteries?
10 gauge is speaker wire, not suitable for an inverter. Where did 10 gauge come from?
Why is the inverter being installed so far from the batteries?
The 10 gauge was just a theoretical question as I've just always wondered, just never remembered to ask until this post.
As far as the distance, the horizontal run is not that far, more like 3 feet if I went straight from the batteries through the front wall of the trailer. But that seems like a leak point so I was picturing going down from the batteries, back to the trailer then up through the floor. Now that I have a better idea how much distance affects wire gauge, voltage drop, and price; I'm going to reconsider the path to see how much I can shorten it.
Thanks
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Here's a real world tip about voltage drop influence...
Coffeemaker 950 watts
24 oz brew 55F water
At 120vac one minute fifteen seconds
At 100vac two minutes thirty (five?) seconds
Microwave. 8oz russet potato
Seven minutes
Eleven and a half minutes
" Need 4x #10 to make #4 "
Double wire drop three sizes 2x10 9-8-7 (seven gauge)
Works with AWG. SAE wire gauge doesn't cut it...
Here's a real world tip about voltage drop influence...
Coffeemaker 950 watts
24 oz brew 55F water
At 120vac one minute fifteen seconds
At 100vac two minutes thirty (five?) seconds
Microwave. 8oz russet potato
Seven minutes
Eleven and a half minutes
" Need 4x #10 to make #4 "
Double wire drop three sizes 2x10 9-8-7 (seven gauge)
Works with AWG. SAE wire gauge doesn't cut it...
Thanks for the reply
Wow I never would have thought that 20V AC, or lack of it, would have that much effect.
So I was right on the parallel wires, 2x10 = 7. I figured it wasn't a straight multiplier.
Thanks
pianotuna wrote:
opnspaces,
Zamp is pricey compared to some other inverters. Unless you have it already I'd suggest something else.
The inverter needs to be as close as humanly possible to the battery bank without being in the same compartment.
My wire run is about four feet--and that is LONG for a 3k unit.
opnspaces,
Zamp is pricey compared to some other inverters. Unless you have it already I'd suggest something else.
The inverter needs to be as close as humanly possible to the battery bank without being in the same compartment.
My wire run is about four feet--and that is LONG for a 3k unit.
Thanks Pianotuna, Yes I already have the inverter thanks to Lowes clearing them out a few months back. So now that I have it I figure I should use it rather than leaving it on the shelf in my garage where it's been since it's purchase.
SoundGuy wrote:
The question though in your case is, aside from heavy wiring necessary to make the most of a 2000 watt inverter what do you intend to use to power the inverter, 'cause a single battery sure isn't going to do it?
The question though in your case is, aside from heavy wiring necessary to make the most of a 2000 watt inverter what do you intend to use to power the inverter, 'cause a single battery sure isn't going to do it?
True I realize it takes a lot of battery to support a large load. Currently I'm running two 6volt Costco batteries and am working on upgrading my original charger to something more robust than the stock charger that came in the trailer. I would like to add two more 6 volts in the future, but I'm not yet sure where I want to put them.
When I look at my inverter it has 1 positive and 1 negative lug. They look to be about 3/8 inch or 10mm across so I should be able to add a fairly large wire and terminal.
Thanks everyone for your input on this.
opnspaces wrote:
As far as the distance, the horizontal run is not that far, more like 3 feet if I went straight from the batteries through the front wall of the trailer. But that seems like a leak point so I was picturing going down from the batteries, back to the trailer then up through the floor. Now that I have a better idea how much distance affects wire gauge, voltage drop, and price; I'm going to reconsider the path to see how much I can shorten it.
As far as the distance, the horizontal run is not that far, more like 3 feet if I went straight from the batteries through the front wall of the trailer. But that seems like a leak point so I was picturing going down from the batteries, back to the trailer then up through the floor. Now that I have a better idea how much distance affects wire gauge, voltage drop, and price; I'm going to reconsider the path to see how much I can shorten it.
I wouldn't do that - if the inverter is mounted in the front pass through storage compartment go down through the floor, along the underside of the A-frame, and up to the batteries. In my case that turned out to be 6', meaning 12' of cable for positive & negative, both 4 gauge for my maximum ever load of 70 amps. You sure don't want to go through the trailer's front wall - instead increase the gauge of the cable to whatever may be necessary to meet your load & distance requirements.
SoundGuy wrote:
I wouldn't do that - if the inverter is mounted in the front pass through storage compartment go down through the floor, along the underside of the A-frame, and up to the batteries. In my case that turned out to be 6', meaning 12' of cable for positive & negative, both 4 gauge for my maximum ever load of 70 amps. You sure don't want to go through the trailer's front wall - instead increase the gauge of the cable to whatever may be necessary to meet your load & distance requirements.
opnspaces wrote:
As far as the distance, the horizontal run is not that far, more like 3 feet if I went straight from the batteries through the front wall of the trailer. But that seems like a leak point so I was picturing going down from the batteries, back to the trailer then up through the floor. Now that I have a better idea how much distance affects wire gauge, voltage drop, and price; I'm going to reconsider the path to see how much I can shorten it.
As far as the distance, the horizontal run is not that far, more like 3 feet if I went straight from the batteries through the front wall of the trailer. But that seems like a leak point so I was picturing going down from the batteries, back to the trailer then up through the floor. Now that I have a better idea how much distance affects wire gauge, voltage drop, and price; I'm going to reconsider the path to see how much I can shorten it.
I wouldn't do that - if the inverter is mounted in the front pass through storage compartment go down through the floor, along the underside of the A-frame, and up to the batteries. In my case that turned out to be 6', meaning 12' of cable for positive & negative, both 4 gauge for my maximum ever load of 70 amps. You sure don't want to go through the trailer's front wall - instead increase the gauge of the cable to whatever may be necessary to meet your load & distance requirements.
Oh I dunno. That's what I did.
As straight a path to the batteries as possible, carefully caulked.But my front wall consists of a cap + space + interior wall. A water leak will just drain down the solid fibreglass cap. If that front surface were laminate ... maybe not.
2014 ORV Timber Ridge 240RKS,8500#,1250# tongue,44K miles
690W Rooftop + 340W Portable Solar,4 GC2s,215Ah@24V
2016 Ram 2500 4x4 RgCab CTD,2507# payload,10.8 mpgUS tow
opnspaces wrote:
As far as the distance, the horizontal run is not that far, more like 3 feet if I went straight from the batteries through the front wall of the trailer.
As far as the distance, the horizontal run is not that far, more like 3 feet if I went straight from the batteries through the front wall of the trailer.
SoundGuy wrote:
I wouldn't do that - if the inverter is mounted in the front pass through storage compartment go down through the floor, along the underside of the A-frame, and up to the batteries.
I wouldn't do that - if the inverter is mounted in the front pass through storage compartment go down through the floor, along the underside of the A-frame, and up to the batteries.
brulaz wrote:
Oh I dunno. That's what I did. As straight a path to the batteries as possible, carefully caulked.
But my front wall consists of a cap + space + interior wall.
Oh I dunno. That's what I did.
As straight a path to the batteries as possible, carefully caulked.But my front wall consists of a cap + space + interior wall.
The OP's 2005 Jayco Jay Flight 27BH is conventional build, doesn't have a front cap, as is no different in construction than my own 2014 Coachmen Freedom Express in which I installed a 1000 watt PSW inverter in the front pass through storage compartment and ran the cables from the inverter down through the floor to the battery.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/JJrAIdOl.jpg)
This upcoming season I have to replace my now failed 10 yr old Interstate battery, most likely with a single G31 as we normally only "dry camp" those few times each season we lose shore power. It'll fit in the same battery box I have mounted on the tongue but if I go for the additional cost of an AGM I'm considering parking it in the pass through storage compartment just below the inverter, in which case the cable run from the inverter to the battery will be shortened from 6' to ~ 15". Thinking out loud I might even bring the battery's negative & positive posts out to lugs mounted next to the street side hatch door so I can readily load support that G31 & inverter with the truck those times I may want to power a heavy draw appliance such as my toaster. For those of us who do this only occasionally load support works just fine and is a lot less costly than investing in a set of dual or quad batteries.
The AGM does not need to be accessible for checking its water and doing an hydrometer check, so no issues having it in there and having to pull it out every so often.
You do need an ammeter on it to know you are fully charged, as discussed in other threads on that. I use the Trimetric for that.
In the 5er, I cut a hole in the cargo bay door and inserted one of those plastic "cable hatches" (about $15) which also acted as an air vent when the door is closed and locked. (I had flooded batts) That also helped keep it cooler for the electronic items.
2oldman wrote:
Some of us have gone to 24 or 48 volts to lessen line loss and use thinner, more flexible wire.
Some of us have gone to 24 or 48 volts to lessen line loss and use thinner, more flexible wire.
A very wise decision, but it makes charging and powering 12VDC item more of a challenge.
theoldwizard1 wrote:
2oldman wrote:
Some of us have gone to 24 or 48 volts to lessen line loss and use thinner, more flexible wire.
A very wise decision, but it makes charging and powering 12VDC item more of a challenge.Some of us have gone to 24 or 48 volts to lessen line loss and use thinner, more flexible wire.
As mentioned:
GordonThree wrote:
An inexpensive DC-DC converter provides 12v for small loads like pump, lights, etc.
An inexpensive DC-DC converter provides 12v for small loads like pump, lights, etc.
BFL13 wrote:
SoundGuy, putting an AGM in there will also reduce your tongue weight so you can carry more heavy things in the truck. Or you could use that space for more propane bottles.
SoundGuy, putting an AGM in there will also reduce your tongue weight so you can carry more heavy things in the truck. Or you could use that space for more propane bottles.
Yeah, that actually may be a downside as I'm currently only running ~ 13% gross tongue weight as it is and would prefer a bit more ... with a new G31 AGM sitting in the pass through instead of the A-frame that will only worsen the situation.
I've been considering what I could put in that empty battery box sitting on the tongue but just haven't come up with anything yet. I could rearrange the A-frame platform again and put the propane tanks back where they originally were just aft of the tongue jack but I much prefer this setup as it is. Gonna have to muse on this a bit more. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/tongue.gif "tongue")
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/5OVUn0Hl.jpg)
Typical of many travel trailers mine has these awful terminal strips mounted on the trailer frame just below the front pass through storage compartment.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/O9YbuYrl.jpg)
I'm going to take this opportunity when installing the new G31 AGM to replace those strips with this 7-way weatherproof junction box I bought at Princess Auto today.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/Y5xasSjl.png)
My plan is to connect the inverter to the battery with 12" to 18" of 1 or 2 gauge pre-made battery cables, then cut my existing 6' lengths of 4 gauge that had been running from the inverter to the battery on the tongue and instead wire those to this new junction box which will be directly below where the new G31 will be sitting. This will really clean up the entire setup, protect those terminal connections from the elements, and minimize voltage drop between the battery and inverter.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
3 tons
So, to really get "the best for my application" answers:
What is battery bank size (amp-hrs @ 12 VDC)
What is the largest load (amps @ 120 VAC) that you want to run off the inverter AND, for how long.
Location of components-- how far from battery bank to inverter (shorter distance is better, but not in the same compartment). Remember that for wire gauge, the electrons travel "round trip" so if located 10' from the battery that is 20' of wire.
How "idiot-proof" do you need it. Said another way, one of the simplest wiring solutions is to power the whole 120 VAC panel through the inverter (inverter with built-in transfer switch). BUT (read that big BUT)if someone may walk in and turn the the roof A/C when shore power is off or could go off, you would have a big issue (quickly discharge the battery bank and/or overload the inverter). The "idiot-proof" thing to do is remove those circuits you want to be able to power from the inverter (both hots and neutrals) and move them to a sub-panel supplied by the inverter. Then hot from main panel to inverter for when on shore power or generator.
Again, look at the whole package before making a decision. No point in a huge inverter with only a small battery bank!
Yes one needs to look at the whole package.
Inverters with switched power supplies (all of the cheap units) need to have a higher rating--because their ability to surge is pretty lousy. If a 2k unit is only a few bucks more than a 1k unit--I'd deliberately oversize the component.
As you may remember, one of our members here did actually burn out an inverter from repeated overloads. It did run his microwave--but the red overload light was on. It did it several many times and then the magic blue smoke came out.
wolfe10 wrote:
As one can see from answers on this thread, to be a "well though out" electrical package, one must consider many things.
No point in a huge inverter with only a small battery bank!
As one can see from answers on this thread, to be a "well though out" electrical package, one must consider many things.
No point in a huge inverter with only a small battery bank!
pianotuna wrote:
Inverters with switched power supplies (all of the cheap units) need to have a higher rating--because their ability to surge is pretty lousy. If a 2k unit is only a few bucks more than a 1k unit--I'd deliberately oversize the component.
Inverters with switched power supplies (all of the cheap units) need to have a higher rating--because their ability to surge is pretty lousy. If a 2k unit is only a few bucks more than a 1k unit--I'd deliberately oversize the component.
Maybe, depends on what you're using it for, what's available, and for how much $$$. Mine is a 1000 watt PSW from Canadian Tire, in reality an NPower inverter, purchased because it's was the only PSW inverter sold at the time by CT and because the sale price of $199 for a PSW of this size couldn't be beat here in Canada.
Secondly, the only inductive loads my inverter sees is a 30 watt fan so obviously the inverter's surge capability is a non-issue. Both my toaster and coffee maker are resistive loads so surge isn't really an issue with those either. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
Bottom line - I don't care about an inverter's surge capability and therefore have no need to buy "over" my needs.
It appears the 1000 watt PSW from Canadian Tire is still lonely. I.E. it is their only PSW unit.
pianotuna wrote:
I'll have to tell my 700 watt heater that it has no inrush the next time it refuses to operate on a 750 watt inverter.
I'll have to tell my 700 watt heater that it has no inrush the next time it refuses to operate on a 750 watt inverter.
Surge demand caused by an inductive load that can be many times running current is a different animal than inrush of a resistive circuit which is cold and is only a small percentage greater than it's average running current.
Quote:
It appears the 1000 watt PSW from Canadian Tire is still lonely. I.E. it is their only PSW unit.
It appears the 1000 watt PSW from Canadian Tire is still lonely. I.E. it is their only PSW unit.
Yep, and still a good deal for what it is even though it's on-sale price has gone up, like everything else.
pianotuna wrote:
I'll have to tell my 700 watt heater that it has no inrush the next time it refuses to operate on a 750 watt inverter. I'll threaten to spank it.
You are correct. A typical heater circuit can have up to 25% increase in inrush current due to to heater element having a much lower resistance when cold until it reaches operating temp. It's not as much as an inductive motor startup current but it's still there.
I'll have to tell my 700 watt heater that it has no inrush the next time it refuses to operate on a 750 watt inverter. I'll threaten to spank it.
SoundGuy wrote:
Yeah, that actually may be a downside as I'm currently only running ~ 13% gross tongue weight as it is and would prefer a bit more ... with a new G31 AGM sitting in the pass through instead of the A-frame that will only worsen the situation. I've been considering what I could put in that empty battery box sitting on the tongue but just haven't come up with anything yet. I could rearrange the A-frame platform again and put the propane tanks back where they originally were just aft of the tongue jack but I much prefer this setup as it is. Gonna have to muse on this a bit more.
Typical of many travel trailers mine has these awful terminal strips mounted on the trailer frame just below the front pass through storage compartment.
I'm going to take this opportunity when installing the new G31 AGM to replace those strips with this 7-way weatherproof junction box I bought at Princess Auto today.
My plan is to connect the inverter to the battery with 12" to 18" of 1 or 2 gauge pre-made battery cables, then cut my existing 6' lengths of 4 gauge that had been running from the inverter to the battery on the tongue and instead wire those to this new junction box which will be directly below where the new G31 will be sitting. This will really clean up the entire setup, protect those terminal connections from the elements, and minimize voltage drop between the battery and inverter.
BFL13 wrote:
SoundGuy, putting an AGM in there will also reduce your tongue weight so you can carry more heavy things in the truck. Or you could use that space for more propane bottles.
SoundGuy, putting an AGM in there will also reduce your tongue weight so you can carry more heavy things in the truck. Or you could use that space for more propane bottles.
Yeah, that actually may be a downside as I'm currently only running ~ 13% gross tongue weight as it is and would prefer a bit more ... with a new G31 AGM sitting in the pass through instead of the A-frame that will only worsen the situation.
I've been considering what I could put in that empty battery box sitting on the tongue but just haven't come up with anything yet. I could rearrange the A-frame platform again and put the propane tanks back where they originally were just aft of the tongue jack but I much prefer this setup as it is. Gonna have to muse on this a bit more. Typical of many travel trailers mine has these awful terminal strips mounted on the trailer frame just below the front pass through storage compartment.
I'm going to take this opportunity when installing the new G31 AGM to replace those strips with this 7-way weatherproof junction box I bought at Princess Auto today.
My plan is to connect the inverter to the battery with 12" to 18" of 1 or 2 gauge pre-made battery cables, then cut my existing 6' lengths of 4 gauge that had been running from the inverter to the battery on the tongue and instead wire those to this new junction box which will be directly below where the new G31 will be sitting. This will really clean up the entire setup, protect those terminal connections from the elements, and minimize voltage drop between the battery and inverter.
Fyi, that 7 way junction box is for trailer light/brake wiring and probably won't support the amps of an inverter as listed.
SoundGuy wrote:
Typical of many travel trailers mine has these awful terminal strips mounted on the trailer frame just below the front pass through storage compartment.
I'm going to take this opportunity when installing the new G31 AGM to replace those strips with this 7-way weatherproof junction box I bought at Princess Auto today.
My plan is to connect the inverter to the battery with 12" to 18" of 1 or 2 gauge pre-made battery cables, then cut my existing 6' lengths of 4 gauge that had been running from the inverter to the battery on the tongue and instead wire those to this new junction box which will be directly below where the new G31 will be sitting. This will really clean up the entire setup, protect those terminal connections from the elements, and minimize voltage drop between the battery and inverter.
Typical of many travel trailers mine has these awful terminal strips mounted on the trailer frame just below the front pass through storage compartment.
I'm going to take this opportunity when installing the new G31 AGM to replace those strips with this 7-way weatherproof junction box I bought at Princess Auto today.
My plan is to connect the inverter to the battery with 12" to 18" of 1 or 2 gauge pre-made battery cables, then cut my existing 6' lengths of 4 gauge that had been running from the inverter to the battery on the tongue and instead wire those to this new junction box which will be directly below where the new G31 will be sitting. This will really clean up the entire setup, protect those terminal connections from the elements, and minimize voltage drop between the battery and inverter.
mapguy wrote:
Fyi, that 7 way junction box is for trailer light/brake wiring and probably won't support the amps of an inverter as listed.
Fyi, that 7 way junction box is for trailer light/brake wiring and probably won't support the amps of an inverter as listed.
The inverter wires aren't going anywhere near these terminals but directly to the battery. You're absolutely correct though, this box is intended for light / brake wiring but the size / weight of the threaded studs are exactly the same as those terminals already in use. That said, none of this may matter as the more I look at the above pic the more I'm beginning to believe those aren't just terminal strips but rather auto resetting circuit breakers. I'll know for sure once I take a look but the trailer is in winter storage right now so it'll be awhile before I can verify just what I'd dealing with.
LittleBill wrote:
pictures above are auto resetting circuit breakers, not sure why we think they are terminal strips
pictures above are auto resetting circuit breakers, not sure why we think they are terminal strips
On second blush I think you're right, question is what they're for.
One is easy - the small sofa slide - but the other wouldn't seem to serve any purpose as there's already an auto resetting CB in the positive line coming from the battery that goes on to feed these two CBs, the inputs of which which are jumped together. I'll have to take a closer look once I get the trailer out of winter storage.
SoundGuy wrote:
On second blush I think you're right, question is what they're for. One is easy - the small sofa slide - but the other wouldn't seem to serve any purpose as there's already an auto resetting CB in the positive line coming from the battery that goes on to feed these two CBs, the inputs of which which are jumped together. I'll have to take a closer look once I get the trailer out of winter storage.
LittleBill wrote:
pictures above are auto resetting circuit breakers, not sure why we think they are terminal strips
pictures above are auto resetting circuit breakers, not sure why we think they are terminal strips
On second blush I think you're right, question is what they're for.
One is easy - the small sofa slide - but the other wouldn't seem to serve any purpose as there's already an auto resetting CB in the positive line coming from the battery that goes on to feed these two CBs, the inputs of which which are jumped together. I'll have to take a closer look once I get the trailer out of winter storage.it most certainly has a purpose, the wires are different gauges the cb's are also different amperage's, since the main cb is rated higher, the branch off circuit breaker is using a smaller gauge wire, thus it will need to have a smaller cb(which i assume it does) to protect the branch wire, same as a main and branch breaker in house hold wiring
i would hold off replacing or rewiring anything till you have a stronger understanding of how things are wired here.
LittleBill wrote:
pictures above are auto resetting circuit breakers, not sure why we think they are terminal strips
pictures above are auto resetting circuit breakers, not sure why we think they are terminal strips
SoundGuy wrote:
On second blush I think you're right, question is what they're for. One is easy - the small sofa slide - but the other wouldn't seem to serve any purpose as there's already an auto resetting CB in the positive line coming from the battery that goes on to feed these two CBs, the inputs of which which are jumped together. I'll have to take a closer look once I get the trailer out of winter storage.
On second blush I think you're right, question is what they're for.
One is easy - the small sofa slide - but the other wouldn't seem to serve any purpose as there's already an auto resetting CB in the positive line coming from the battery that goes on to feed these two CBs, the inputs of which which are jumped together. I'll have to take a closer look once I get the trailer out of winter storage.LittleBill wrote:
i would hold off replacing or rewiring anything till you have a stronger understanding of how things are wired here.
i would hold off replacing or rewiring anything till you have a stronger understanding of how things are wired here.
Obviously
... which as I already said I can't do for awhile yet as my trailer is currently in winter storage. Once I do have it back here at the house it'll be a simple matter to identify just what each circuit does and why it's wired the way it is. Between now and then, if I happen to drop by my dealer I'll take a look at a new 192RBS.