'12 F-350 SD CC, SRW, LWB, 4X4, FX4 Offroad, Bilsteins, AirLift Air Bags, BedLocker bed cover, White Platinum w/Adobe, Navigation, Moon Roof, 5th Wheel Prep, Step Tail Gate, front hitch receiver, completely insulated, Pioneer speakers, King Ranch Package.
Z turn
2008 F450
2007 Adventurer 85WS
2012 Haulmark "The Garage"
2016 Outdoors RV Glacier Peak 26 RKS
As to what you're doing wrong, don't have your wife help you back up. That's just asking for trouble.
2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB
Sometimes it helps to "view" the methods and techniques,
rather than "read" about them.
Also, "Google" the subject. There's a lengthy description (with diagrams and info) intended for tractor/trailer operators.
On RV Net (5th Wheel Forum) - search the archives for *Backing*.
Been lots of methods described, including variations of the "Z".
And yeah - TT's always seemed easier to me.
You'll always hear...practice, practice, practice - - but do some research 1st.
Good luck!
~
Quote:
...but it seems like it takes forever for the input to, well, input.
...but it seems like it takes forever for the input to, well, input.
Yes, and you probably cut it more and when it does start turning it is way too much, too fast. When this starts to happen stop and pull ahead a bit in the opposite direction you where turning.
Of course the best way is practice, practice, etc but this should help in the meantime.
2008 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
2010 Cruiser 26RK
2015 Ford F-250, 6.7 PSD
2016 Ford Expedition, 3.5 Eco-Boost
2003 Ford F-150, 4.2 V6
Sandpiper 357 TRIP
Good luck
Steve & Judy 2023 RAM 3500 6.7L Cummins HO Crew Cab LWB, 2017 Grand Design Reflections 337RLS
Lifetime Good Sam Member
1960's: Tents.. 1970's: Soft top & Hard top P/U.. 1980's: 17' RV.. 1990's: 24' RV.. 2000's: 2002 Cougar 276EFS; 2005 Laredo 29GS; 2002 GMC 2500HD Ext Cab 4x4; 2015: 2006 Class 'B' Chateau Citation; "(Nfld/Labrador-Yukon/NWT/Alaska-Gaspe', Que./Florida!!)
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On the other hand, after spending time with my 5th wheel, I have a heck of a time backing up my 12' utility trailer until I get used to it again.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC
2011 RAM 3500 SRW
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS
op wrote:
I've always been told how easy it is to back up a five, so what am I doing wrong?
. I've always been told how easy it is to back up a five, so what am I doing wrong?
Your doing nothing wrong.
A bumper pull hitch point is several feet behind the trucks rear axle and reacts to steering input much quicker than a GN or 5th wheel trailer that the hitch point sits over the trucks rear axle.
It takes a lot more steering input when backing a GN or 5th wheel trailer to get the trailers back end to move than the same truck and a bumper pull unit.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers
'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#
"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"
IdaD wrote:
In some ways a fifth wheel actually seems easier to me, but it does respond differently and you need more room for the truck to swing since the trailer reacts more slowly.
As to what you're doing wrong, don't have your wife help you back up. That's just asking for trouble.
In some ways a fifth wheel actually seems easier to me, but it does respond differently and you need more room for the truck to swing since the trailer reacts more slowly.
As to what you're doing wrong, don't have your wife help you back up. That's just asking for trouble.
More room for the truck is the only thing that I notice the most about a 5er.
NOW 2017 Leprechaun 260ds
2005 Forrest River Cardinal 29rkle FW
1998 Lance 980 11'3" TC
2017 CHEVY 3500 SRW 6.0
B@W turnover ball @ companion Hitch
Honda eu3000 generator mounted on cargo rack
Crestliner 1850 Fish Ski boat mostly fishing now!
Its funny how some blame it on their DW. Please. Own the problem!
.
I learned on a tractor and trailer. Never pulled a bumper pull for 15 years after that. Only had pulled 5th wheels.
Turns too quick, can't see it right in the mirrors, doesn't track right. Very funny.
Practice is of course the key. Find a big empty parking lot, and get a few cones.
Then wait till you cut the wrong way without the trailer.
scott
The angle your towing vehicle is in in your signature is about perfect for turning your 5vr.
2021 Chevy Silverado LTZ 3500 Diesel
2022 Montana Legacy 3931FB
Pull-Rite Super Glide 4500
Puma 30RKSS
The 35' 5er was my first experience with any trailer besides the homemade trailer for the mower. The backing is all self taught. We actually prefer a back in to a pull through site. Can't say it is always easy & not always pretty but it is always done under the direction of the DW via the FSR radios or simple hand signals. The operation never looks like 'so you think you can dance'. There are no screaming voices that can be heard all over the CG. She gives direction on where she wants the trailer to go. I follow directions.
When things go wrong it is often much easier to go forward & start again than to try & fix it with a bunch of backwards & forwarding only moving a few feet.
The only way to get good at reversing is to do it frequently & do it into challenging sites.
Boat: 32' 1996 Albin 32+2, single Cummins 315hp
40+ night per year overnighter
2007 Alpenlite 34RLR
2006 Chevy 3500 LT, CC,LB 6.6L Diesel
Ham Radio: VP9KL, IRLP node 7995
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
. When she does use the button she yells because she thinks I'm going to hit something. One time backing into the driveway she disappeared and all of a sudden I saw her cane show up in my mirror. I stopped and got out to look. Stopped just before hitting the house. It's just so much fun........
Pipeman
Ontario, Canada
Full Member
35 year Fire Fighter(retired)
VE3PJF
Biggest trick is not to over steer the turn and prep your turn by positioning yourself properly.
The fifth takes longer to start that turn but essentially is the same trick as any tow able. Don't over steer. Once the unit starts it's turn it will keep turning until you apply pressure on the opposite angle to cancel the force. No reason to over steer, just get the truck centered after the turn starts and use small adjustments. That is the biggest error I see most people make when backing in.
Starting out in a good position is also paramount to an easy turn in a tight area. Getting the unit on a good angle so you aren't trying to turn 260 degrees is paramount to easy backing. The larger your angle over 180 degrees (straight back in) the harder your turn must be and the harder it is to get the timing on getting the truck straight.
Hard
...._____
I I
I I
Easy
....//
...//
I I
I I
I I
The closer you start that turn to 180 degrees the better so pull up to the site close on the passenger side, ride forward until the rig is coming across the driveway and your goal is then pull forward and out hard driver side so ultimately the passenger wheels come up on the edge of the patio side of pavement and just a tad beyond as you straighten out the truck and trailer so you are able to start backing. Obviously opposite if you're backing from the other direction.
So long as the rear of your unit can swing without smacking trees the only thing you need to worry about is the back tire location as that is the path the unit is going to take. Adjust that from there to account for foliage but the pivot point is going to be the back axle and the back wheel is where the turn will start once the units begins turning. The giant box hanging off the back is irrelevant except for obstructions. which you should have 15 ft+ of drive way width to use.
Start your turn backwards and once it starts turning good get the truck straight. Keeping the unit moving the direction you want. Once you get that point down it is like butter.
* This post was last edited 01/21/17 01:14pm by Aridon *
2019 Grand Design Momentum 395
2018 Ram 3500 DRW 4.10
2014.5 DRV Atlanta (sold)
2008 Newmar 4330 (Modified) Sold
2019 Chevy crew LTZ 2500 HD Duramax
2017 Wildcat 29rlx fifth wheel
When we brought our first 5th wheel home I made a total mess of the grass on each side of the concrete driveway!! I felt like a rookie. Once I realized how slow a 5th wheel reacts to steering wheel changes I begin to get better. This is why I say don't hesitate to pull forward a time or two for a couple of feet to make corrections. Making corrections while still backing is really difficult with a 5th wheel.
You can't take the Fisherman out of this Camper wrote:
When I had my fivers and the DW to help me back up she would not give me the right direction until she saw which way I should be turning TOO LATE into the turn. I started ignoring her directions and turning before she would tell me on the walkie talkie. That worked for a while until she noticed I was always turning before she would give me direction... which created some more 'unfriendly' dialogue!! She did not understand that I needed to get my initial direction well before she realized what I needed to do. I finally got her to agree to be a SPOTTER ONLY and not to distract me with unnecessary directions so I could make my own mistakes. Believe it or not... that's when I learned how to do it and nail it... after some more practice of course!!
When I had my fivers and the DW to help me back up she would not give me the right direction until she saw which way I should be turning TOO LATE into the turn. I started ignoring her directions and turning before she would tell me on the walkie talkie. That worked for a while until she noticed I was always turning before she would give me direction... which created some more 'unfriendly' dialogue!! She did not understand that I needed to get my initial direction well before she realized what I needed to do. I finally got her to agree to be a SPOTTER ONLY and not to distract me with unnecessary directions so I could make my own mistakes. Believe it or not... that's when I learned how to do it and nail it... after some more practice of course!!
Sounds very familiar
One other idea that I finally tried. Last time we took it out I had DW walk along side the drivers side wheels and put a paint spot on the driveway every 3 feet or so about a foot outside the wheels. When I went to back in I just backed along this natural trajectory. Worked like a charm. If you don't want the paint on your driveway use some sidewalk chalk and put empty drink cans on the spots.
I need some wild
Reader1 wrote:
Over the years I have watched my husband back nearly everything perfectly... then we got a 5th wheel. Yikes! I have no idea but it seems like when he uses his mirrors he puts it right in. When he turns and looks another way, well neighbors get out their lawn chairs to watch the show. My job is only to make sure he is not going to hit anything and watch for children. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut until he asks if it is OK. Then I tell him (GOAL) - get out and look... but I always say it nicely, well not always nicely. Once in a while while watching him I will say, "What are you doing?". That is not a good idea.
Over the years I have watched my husband back nearly everything perfectly... then we got a 5th wheel. Yikes! I have no idea but it seems like when he uses his mirrors he puts it right in. When he turns and looks another way, well neighbors get out their lawn chairs to watch the show. My job is only to make sure he is not going to hit anything and watch for children. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut until he asks if it is OK. Then I tell him (GOAL) - get out and look... but I always say it nicely, well not always nicely. Once in a while while watching him I will say, "What are you doing?". That is not a good idea.
Post of the year!
2022 Keystone Cougar 24RDS
2017 F350 Lariat 6.7L DRW
one_strange_texan
Currently between RV's
Former 5th wheel owner (Montana 3402RL)
one_strange_texan wrote:
I have seen a lot of perspectives on this thread. It is surprising to me that more drivers are not receptive to advice from their spouses and insist on seeing it all themselves and getting out and looking. We use walkie-talkies. My wife knows she is steering the wheels of the trailer and I have taught her to keep her commands simple as in "back end to the left," "back end to the right," "straight back," and "stop" if I am about to hit something. I am the one who has to anticipate the delayed reaction of the fifth wheel trailer and the need to correct to follow it into the target area. It took some training to clue her into the need to avoid the editorial comments such as "You seem to be having a lot of trouble" and "I don't like this spot, it is hard to back into."
could I send my friends wife to you for training, lol they always seem to argue about backing in. She has even tried to get in the middle of us backing in.
I have seen a lot of perspectives on this thread. It is surprising to me that more drivers are not receptive to advice from their spouses and insist on seeing it all themselves and getting out and looking. We use walkie-talkies. My wife knows she is steering the wheels of the trailer and I have taught her to keep her commands simple as in "back end to the left," "back end to the right," "straight back," and "stop" if I am about to hit something. I am the one who has to anticipate the delayed reaction of the fifth wheel trailer and the need to correct to follow it into the target area. It took some training to clue her into the need to avoid the editorial comments such as "You seem to be having a lot of trouble" and "I don't like this spot, it is hard to back into."
Before you begin, tell her no fighting, were a team
2 way radio
Deep breath
Don't rush
Get out and look, see the situation from a perspective you will see in your mind when back in the truck.
Slow and easy, again get out and look.
Now after your done, to make a drink.
04' F350 PSD TB SC FX4 XLT, TH-04' 32' Sandpiper Sport Fifthwheel WB Dual Axle
07' Rhino 686 SS106-ITP-AFE-BRP-T4-CDI-KIBBLEBWHITE-CVT-TSTICH-Ridgid LED LightBar-HID Conversion Kit-LIVEWIRE
04' Honda 250 Sportstrac quad
05' Honda 400 Ranchers quad
one_strange_texan wrote:
I have seen a lot of perspectives on this thread. It is surprising to me that more drivers are not receptive to advice from their spouses and insist on seeing it all themselves and getting out and looking. We use walkie-talkies. My wife knows she is steering the wheels of the trailer and I have taught her to keep her commands simple as in "back end to the left," "back end to the right," "straight back," and "stop" if I am about to hit something. I am the one who has to anticipate the delayed reaction of the fifth wheel trailer and the need to correct to follow it into the target area. It took some training to clue her into the need to avoid the editorial comments such as "You seem to be having a lot of trouble" and "I don't like this spot, it is hard to back into."
I have seen a lot of perspectives on this thread. It is surprising to me that more drivers are not receptive to advice from their spouses and insist on seeing it all themselves and getting out and looking. We use walkie-talkies. My wife knows she is steering the wheels of the trailer and I have taught her to keep her commands simple as in "back end to the left," "back end to the right," "straight back," and "stop" if I am about to hit something. I am the one who has to anticipate the delayed reaction of the fifth wheel trailer and the need to correct to follow it into the target area. It took some training to clue her into the need to avoid the editorial comments such as "You seem to be having a lot of trouble" and "I don't like this spot, it is hard to back into."
My question to these team backers is what do you do if the spotter is not available??
I use to return the 5er to the storage yard without the DW, and place it into the spot without too much trouble.
I have learned to use the mirrors and will get out and look as necessary, I love my DW, but to me backing into a space is a one person task. During the busy seasons DW only watches for kids and keeps them from going behind the 5er.
Remember, some day you will be too old to do the driving. Your options may be to either quit camping or to rely on her to handle it. If the latter is preferred, you may want to make sure she has the confidence and skills that YOU are going to need her to have.
Keep camping.
2021 F150 2.7 Ecoboost - Summer Home 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Can Am Spyder RT-L Chrome, Kawasaki KRX1000. Retired and enjoying it! RIP DW 07-05-2021
We use the two cell phones with both put on speaker. I put the cell on the console and then communicate as necessary without messing with a radio.
We use the radios. She talks. I do what she says. I seldom need to answer. For exact placement she stands where she wants a back corner needs to be. Gives me a 'target'.
I like to think that we are very boring to watch. There is no shouting, no standing in blind spots, no flaying of arms or jumping up & down.
Biggest mistake I learned was to straighten the tow vehicle much earlier with a 5'er than when backing a trailer.
http://littleguy.vanillaforums.com/discu........ailer-easily-the-scoop-method-of-backing
2014 Winnebago 26FWRKS 5th Wheel
2007.5 Dodge 2500 6.7L Diesel
2004 Dodge Durango Hemi 3.55 (Used to tow TT)
mileshuff wrote:
I've always used the scoop method for backing in. Similar to the Z method but starts on the far right. Really helps to get the TV and 5'er aligned with the spot prior to backing up. We fought backing in until we found this method. Now we're in our tight storage spot often on very first try. We're inexperienced rookies at this too!
Biggest mistake I learned was to straighten the tow vehicle much earlier with a 5'er than when backing a trailer.
http://littleguy.vanillaforums.com/discu........ailer-easily-the-scoop-method-of-backing
I've always used the scoop method for backing in. Similar to the Z method but starts on the far right. Really helps to get the TV and 5'er aligned with the spot prior to backing up. We fought backing in until we found this method. Now we're in our tight storage spot often on very first try. We're inexperienced rookies at this too!
Biggest mistake I learned was to straighten the tow vehicle much earlier with a 5'er than when backing a trailer.
http://littleguy.vanillaforums.com/discu........ailer-easily-the-scoop-method-of-backing
mileshuff,
Excellent photo of the swoop method! I have used that for the past 30 years every time for backing the trailer.
Thank you for the link to the photo. I downloaded it to post here. Hope you don't mind. If you do, send me a PM and I will delete it from this post.
Barney
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/M62Cenfl.jpg)
2004 Sunnybrook Titan 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch (Sold)
Not towing now.
Former tow vehicles were 2016 Ram 2500 CTD, 2002 Ford F250, 7.3 PSD, 1997 Ram 2500 5.9 gas engine
mileshuff wrote:
I've always used the scoop method for backing in. Similar to the Z method but starts on the far right. Really helps to get the TV and 5'er aligned with the spot prior to backing up. We fought backing in until we found this method. Now we're in our tight storage spot often on very first try. We're inexperienced rookies at this too!
Biggest mistake I learned was to straighten the tow vehicle much earlier with a 5'er than when backing a trailer.
http://littleguy.vanillaforums.com/discu........ailer-easily-the-scoop-method-of-backing
I've always used the scoop method for backing in. Similar to the Z method but starts on the far right. Really helps to get the TV and 5'er aligned with the spot prior to backing up. We fought backing in until we found this method. Now we're in our tight storage spot often on very first try. We're inexperienced rookies at this too!
Biggest mistake I learned was to straighten the tow vehicle much earlier with a 5'er than when backing a trailer.
http://littleguy.vanillaforums.com/discu........ailer-easily-the-scoop-method-of-backing
I never knew it had a name ?? Been doing that for as long as I was driving big rigs .. . great tip
Me-Her-the kids
2020 Ford F350 SD 6.7
2020 Redwood 3991RD Garnet
Early 1999 F-350 7.3 DRW CC, 4.10
2016 Open Range Light FL295FBH
3 Kids, 2 Dogs, 1 Wife.
clev wrote:
First, I've been towing for 45 years, but it's always been a travel trailer. And, I was good, no brag, just fact. I remember parallel parking my van and 37 foot trailer at a parking area in Deadwood, SD quite a few years back. I got my first five in November and tow it with an F350 long bed SuperDuty and I can't make it do anything; I've tried until I'm exasperated. I know which way to cut it, but it seems like it takes forever for the input to, well, input. I have a 60 ft long garage with 12 ft wide door that I back it into, and this last time, it took an hour, plus divorce threats from my wife. I've always been told how easy it is to back up a five, so what am I doing wrong?
First, I've been towing for 45 years, but it's always been a travel trailer. And, I was good, no brag, just fact. I remember parallel parking my van and 37 foot trailer at a parking area in Deadwood, SD quite a few years back. I got my first five in November and tow it with an F350 long bed SuperDuty and I can't make it do anything; I've tried until I'm exasperated. I know which way to cut it, but it seems like it takes forever for the input to, well, input. I have a 60 ft long garage with 12 ft wide door that I back it into, and this last time, it took an hour, plus divorce threats from my wife. I've always been told how easy it is to back up a five, so what am I doing wrong?
Don't feel bad; same with me. Give me one half of an inch on either side, and no problem backing in, first time every time. Til I bought a fifth wheeler. Have a heck of a time backing in, mainly because I usually can't see the drivers side when backing. If I can see, it only takes an hour or so to back in. Kidding. Just kidding! But I am getting better...
Just bought a new rear observation camera yesterday; don't know if it will help or not, but by God I'll be able to see behind me!
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
The added benefit is that you can leave it on when your rolling down the road to see what's going on behind you. Helps a lot to determine safe lane changes. Yeah, it's a few hundred bucks, but worth every penny.
Also reduces the "pissed of" mood and shattering of the marital bliss that comes with a painful backing experience.